Unexpected Twins + Early Labor | Madeline’s Birth Story

Meet Madeline

I was like, I'm not talking to this lady anymore, this is ridiculous. Like, you can disagree with how I'm doing things, but this is my choice, and my baby's, and my pregnancy.

Good for you!

Hey y'all, welcome to The Labor Line, a non-mom’s authentic look into the birth experiences of her mom friends. I'm your host, Emily, and today I'm joined by my friend, Madeline. She and I met when I was 11, and she was 12, and we starred in a church production of Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamcoat together. Now, sorry to let all of y'all down, but you won't be seeing either of us gallivanting across the stage anytime soon. We both agree that theater is not the place for us. That was our last musical ever, but it was super fun to get to do that show, and my brother, who had been away at college, actually played the role of Joseph, and so getting to do something that meaningful together was something that I'd never forget. Something else I'd never forget was meeting Madeline, because up to that point in my life, she was the only girl my age that I'd met who was taller than me. I don't know exactly how tall we both were then, but nowadays, I'm 5'11, and she's 6'3, so it wasn't just a teeny bit taller than me. It was noticeable. Now, I'll be honest, it freaked me out at first, because I was like, if I'm not the tallest girl in the room, who even am I? You know, just a total identity crisis. But after that initial shockwave passed, I was so grateful to have another tall girl in my life, especially at church. I don't know what it was. I was like a foot and a half taller than everybody my whole life at church. And so having a fellow tall girl, especially in that production, just, you know, you're feeling extra vulnerable because you're singing and dancing and moving around. It helped me feel more normal, which every preteen needs to feel in their life. So shout out to her for being another awesome fellow tall girl. Her family moved away not too long after that, but we've stayed in touch through socials here and there. And so when she reached out to me about her incredible birth story, I could hardly wait to hop on the phone and hear all about it.

Today, she'll share about her absolute odyssey of bringing her surprise twins into the world. And yes, you did hear that right. Her twins were a total surprise. She has zero history of twins in her family, and they were naturally conceived. So she got the shock of her life when an early ultrasound ultrasound showed two little blobs on the monitor instead of one. So she'll share about that and also her experience with a subchronic hematoma, a faulty genetic test that caused a few weeks of absolute heartache before thankfully being corrected, and an early start to labor that resulted in, are you ready? A life flight and a helicopter. Now, luckily, that life flight wasn't super necessary, but do you still see why I say an odyssey rather than like a journey or her walk to motherhood? It was a wild ride. But she is so incredible at staying solid in her intuition. You'll see she does such an amazing job of advocating for herself, especially as a first time mom. She also shares about the fear mongering that often accompanies twin pregnancies. And you'll see how she navigates all of that. Also, so her twins were born a couple weeks early. So her son had a three week stay in the NICU and then was able to come home, but her daughter didn't come home until she was six weeks old. So Madeline had three weeks of just her son at home, and she gets super real and vulnerable about that extremely difficult time adjusting from having one baby to two babies at home. And she champions this message that if you're struggling to bond and adjust to the many emotions of postpartum, you are not alone. And so I'm so grateful for her bravery in sharing her unfiltered experience with us today. There is so much goodness in this episode. So without further ado, let's get right to it.

Welcome to the podcast, Madeline. Thank you so much for being here. Tell us a bit about yourself and what you and your family have been up to.

Madeline with Evelyn & Henry

Yeah. So well, I have two-year-old twins, so that's what I'm up to most days. They're wonderful, and also tons and tons of work. My husband is about to finish school, and then we've been in Utah for four and a half years, and we're leaving. And there's good things about Utah, but I'm excited.

No, I feel that. Yeah.

And we don't know where we're going yet, but hopefully close to grandma and grandpa, because these kids are killing me.

Yes, yes. No, that is so real. That is, I'm so excited to get into your story today. You're the first multiples mama that we're going to have on. And so I'm just like, I'm like a kid on Christmas morning, just so excited to hear your story. So what is your husband going to school for?

So he's getting his degree in aviation maintenance and management, and he's also getting hit. And along with that, you have to get a certificate called, or a license, sorry, called the AMP license. And so basically, he'll just be fixing airplanes.

Cool, that's awesome. Well, that's amazing. Like you say two-year-olds, that means that y'all had your twins right in the middle of his schooling. I am just, I am always just so amazed by the ability that people have to just like get through school, get through parenting, but especially multiples. That is just incredible. And I'm sure we'll, we'll talk about that a little bit more.

Yeah.

Truly amazing. Well, I'm just so excited. If you're ready, I'd love to jump in, and just kind of ask like, how did you know that you were ready to start your family?

Pregnancy: Subchronic Hematoma, Inaccurate Genetic Tests, & Rejecting Fearmongering

You know, I, so along with the twins in the middle of the schooling thing, definitely did not think that was going to happen. We don't have twins in our family, and it actually doesn't matter if the husband or if the guy has twins in his family, so I don't have twins in my family. To like, point to that, we might have had twins. So, literally no clue. So we just decided that we were probably ready for one kid. My husband was going to have about a year and a half done if I got pregnant when I wanted to, which is what happened. And I know that's like a lucky thing. I have tons of friends who like, that doesn't happen for them. And so I didn't know what I was expecting, but it happened quick for us. But yeah, we just, we talked about it for a long time. I felt like we waited so long and we were so good. And actually we only waited two and a half years before getting pregnant. So that's something to look back on now. But, and especially now, because I had twins, I was like, yeah, I would have loved them to death, but I would have waited another few years. Like, and so school has gone delayed and all these things, but it'll be fine. They'll be, yeah, they're about to turn two and hopefully he'll graduate in December. So it's not that bad. But as for how we were ready, it's just a feeling. I feel like I couldn't shake it off for a while that someone was waiting to come down to our family, which is such a cool feeling. It's hard to not be worried about making the wrong decision, but things usually work out.

No, that's such a real feeling of like, most of the time, I mean, I've asked a couple of friends that question and it's never, so far, it hasn't been like, this beam of light came down. It's like, I think we're there. I think we're there. And it's always like this step into the darkness and into the unknown. And so I think that's such a brave, beautiful thing, especially, you know, like, just trusting that, okay, like, I think we can do this. I think we're ready. And then just taking a step forward. Because I think in reality, you can never be completely ready. And especially, you know, there's always curve balls.

Absolutely not. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Curve, yeah. Because when, like, we, like, had a savings goal, we met that, we, like, wanted to be a certain amount through school, we did do that, and then things got, you know, turned off the rails. But we kind of met all these criteria, and then it was just like, nope, it doesn't matter what we did to prepare, this is just life now, so.

Right. No, there is such a balance, right, of, like, prepare and then just ride whatever wave comes your way. Like, that is something I'm definitely trying to learn myself of just, like, I'm like, I want to micromanage every little bit, and then life keeps trying to teach me, like, that's not really how it works. So I think I love that answer because it's so real, and it's so relatable of, like, yeah, like, we just did the best we could, and then everything went in completely opposite directions, and we're just, we're right in the wave. So that's awesome, truly. Well, I am so interested. How did you find out you were pregnant? And then what did, like, finding out that you were pregnant with multiples look like?

So I do something called FAM, or Fertility Awareness Method. Basically, my mom and sisters have had bad reactions to birth control, and so I never wanted to go on, like, hormonal birth control. And so I was like, well, how do I avoid getting pregnant for a while when we first got married? And I sound FAM. And it's basically just noting your body symptoms of, like, ovulation and your cycle and your period and everything. Anyways, there's a whole lot to it, but I really liked that because it let me be super on top of what was happening. And so I basically, like, people don't normally find out that they're pregnant until they've, like, missed a period or whatever, but I found out, like, I knew exactly when to test, and the day I tested was the day I found out. So that's definitely, that definitely gave me a strong sense of control that I did not actually have. But so, yeah, for it, it happened really quick for us. And then I, like, knew exactly when to test, got my positive, and it was, that part was fun, to know exactly when I would know. And then the twins, we're finding out about the twins. So I found out I had, like, three and a half weeks pregnant, which is exceptionally early. And then I, like, things were going fine. It's kind of weird because you get the positive test, and you might start telling people, like, I told my parents and obviously my husband, right, right away. And then you kind of just, like, don't have any symptoms, and you're like, is everything good in there? Like, you just, there's just no way to, like, tell anything. It's really bizarre, actually. And so things were going fine. I didn't have any symptoms, except probably tiredness is the only one I can really remember. But one day we were getting ready for church, and my husband was getting ready, and I kind of just fell off. And I was like, you know what, I'm going to stay home today. I just kind of fell off, and I don't know why. And I just feel like I need to stay home. So he went to church for a couple hours. And then while that was happening, I started bleeding. I was like, oh, this is okay. And obviously, that's super scary, because miscarriages happen all the time. And I was only five and a half weeks pregnant. And so I thought for sure that that's what was going to happen. And so luckily, he came home just as I was starting to freak out. We were both panicking, because what else do you do?

Yeah.

And I was like, okay, no one knows I'm pregnant except my mom. So I tried to call the doctor that I was going to go see. But basically, what they tell you is, you're five and a half weeks, we can't do anything. And so you're just going to have to see if it's a miscarriage. And then I was calling my mom. And of course, literally, literally, she always answers my phone calls. But that day, that Sunday, she was like on a three hour hike.

Like, oh no.

And so I like called my dad freaking out. And he was like, I'm sorry, honey. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know what to tell you either. Like, I mean, mom's advice, like, you know, like, he's like, I don't know what, I don't know what to tell you. I'm like, yeah, I'm sorry, dad. I should really be talking to mom about this, you know? And I just wanted to know whether she, like, what her advice would be on going to the ER or not, because I knew that there wasn't anything they could do, but I was just, I'm the type of person that, like, once I start thinking about something, it's so hard to get it out of my head. And so to know that I would have had to basically just, like, wait a week, and like, what then? I don't know, just see if your bleeding continues. It was so awful to even think about. So I was like, okay, we're gonna go to the emergency room just to see, you know, sometimes they can do an ultrasound. And so we went and they were like, yeah, you know, there's nothing we can do. I was like, I know, do an ultrasound anyways. And definitely was expecting them to say either, sorry, like, sorry, it looks like you're having miscarriage, or hey, sometimes this thing happens. And obviously I was helping for the ladder. And okay, so it's not really a good sign when you're getting an ultrasound and they turn the screen away from you. And so I was like, oh, no, like, okay, that's it. Like, and, you know, I'm gonna have a miscarriage. But then the lady was like, let me ask you a weird question. Do you have multiples in your family? And I said no. And she was like, are you on fertility medication? And I said no. And she was like, well, here's baby A and here's baby B.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, it was crazy. Like I said at the beginning, there's no twins. There's no reason that I should have expected twins. Like, it was wild. And like your risk goes up as you get older, right? Because that's, yeah, anyways, I was 25 when I got pregnant, and so there was no reason. I've since found out, Emily, that when you're taller than average, you have a higher chance of twins. So watch out.

Oh no, don't let my husband hear. He's like, there's no twins in your family, right? I'm like, well, all the twins in my family come from the other side of the line. So that's, you know, but okay, noted. That's, I never knew that, noted.

I'm like, I'm 6'3, so here we are. Yeah, the taller you, I think it's the taller you are than, I mean, it's like a tiny chance, but I beat the odds, you know? So, but yeah, anyways, so the twins were fine, but I ended up having what's called a sub-chorionic hematoma. And it's basically just like a bruise inside your uterus. It's like kind of a collection of blood. And usually pregnancies are fine. Sometimes you have really big ones and then the pregnancy is not fine. But yeah, I had one of those and they can just burst, and then you just bleed for a couple of days. And so, super scary, but that was basically the last time that I had to worry about that, was like that day and the next day, and then it was done. And I still had two hematomas until I was about 12 weeks, but they didn't cause any more problems, thankfully. So that was a crazy way to find out. And my husband started having a panic attack. And he was like, I need some fresh air. And I was like, yep, okay. But for me, it really didn't kick in. I feel like it didn't kick in until I had two babies kicking me in different spots. And I was like, oh yeah, there is two in there.

Oh my gosh. That is truly amazing. And I'm like, kudos to you for advocating for yourself to be like, no, I want an ultrasound.

Yeah, I just couldn't wait.

No, yeah.

And because then what do you do? Pregnancy tests aren't accurate as to whether you're having a miscarriage because your hormone level stays high for weeks, to my understanding. So what do you do? You still need an ultrasound to see if you're still pregnant, you know? So I was like, no, let's just do this. And it was crazy because I was five weeks, five days, which is like the start of the heartbeat. But we found both of their heartbeats. And you can't hear it at that point, but they could see the little, like their little heartbeats. So that was really cool.

Wow, truly, just so such an amazing thing for that to be like, okay, this is the earliest that you could have known at all. Yeah, like kind of similar to like even your pregnancy test. Like this is about as early as you can know. So yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. What a start. That is incredible. Well, so it sounds like the first couple weeks, there weren't too many symptoms. Did the symptoms kind of pick up as you went along, or was it a pretty smooth ride? Wow, as smooth as it can be for multiples. I just heard myself say that. Like, no, there's no way.

So for most women, morning sickness starts at about six weeks and settle in my naive little brain. When I hit six weeks and I didn't have morning sickness, I was like, oh, good, maybe this will be easy. Well, the next day, I was walking through Costco and it literally... I can still picture what I saw at the time, where I was in Costco, because it literally hit me like a ton of bricks. And I was like, oh, there's the morning sickness. It went crazy. It was like this wave of nausea, but for me, it was totally different than nausea that you get from having the flu or whatever. It's such a unique feeling, so it was crazy.

Man, I feel like I would have a hard time going to Costco after that for a little bit, just like the Pavlovian effect of like, every time I'm there, I just think about this horrible wave.

Yeah.

Well, so how was the rest of your pregnancy for you? Did you feel like it was harder? I mean, I guess I was going to say, was it a steeper adjustment, but it was all you had experienced in pregnancy, I guess. But how did pregnancy go for you overall?

So I feel like it actually went pretty well. So okay, so totally higher order multiples obviously present risks, but I did tons of research, and twins can actually go pretty smoothly. And so there's a lot of, unfortunately, there's a lot of fear that's kind of inserted into twin pregnancies from kind of the medical system. And as you'll hear in my story, I'm all for the medical system when it's needed. But my mom had some horrible experiences with pregnancy and births. And so I turned out to be like, okay, people want me to be afraid, you know, like they kind of just like inject fear into you as a mom of twins or a mom of multiples. And again, like triplets and more than that, I can understand a little bit more. But twins really are just a variation of normal in most cases. And so I went to several OB-GYNs and I did not like the way that I was treated. I did not like the way that they were telling me that I was a first-time mom with twins, and so I was going to have a C-section. I just, it just did not feel right. And so I had actually had a midwife picked out, but unfortunately she's not licensed for twins. And so she gave me the contact of someone an hour away from me, but I was like, look, if this is going to change my experience, I'm going to drive an hour every two weeks. So I went and felt great about seeing her. She was wonderful. Her team was wonderful. And finally, after going to three different OB-GYNs, because I just was not finding, I just did not want to be filled with fear. Life is filled with enough fear. And if there's a complication that comes up, then fine. Let's be a little nervous, you know? But if I'm just having a pretty smooth pregnancy, then why are we all shaking in our base? And so I was planning on seeing this midwife, and she has delivered like a hundred sets of twins at her birth center. And so I was all gung-ho to go to a birth center, which is not super common with twins and all this. And that didn't end up working out, unfortunately. But I'm really grateful I went to her for my pregnancy because I wasn't afraid. And she instilled so much confidence in me, like, you can do this. I've worked with twin moms all the time. They carried a full term, which people are always nervous about with twins. And so it just brought me so much peace, even though it didn't end up working out. So I would say my pregnancy went well, but there was a few weird things. The sub-chorionic hematoma is a pretty normal thing. But then, like, you know, the new thing, I don't know how long it's been going on, probably 10 years now, is to get a blood test and figure out the sex of your baby kind of as early as you can, because it's so exciting. Well, those blood tests are geared towards singleton moms, right? Which is the majority of pregnancies. And there is only one, there's only one company that does twins. But I was like, no, I'm not waiting until, like, like I cannot wait. I have to know if they're boys or girls or one of each. And so we did the blood test that can do twins. And I was so excited because we traveled down to San Diego to be able to tell my grandparents in person that I was pregnant. And it was, my kids are there first to great grandchildren. So it was so exciting. So exciting. I'm so glad we got to do that. And I was supposed to get the blood test results the week that we were there. So I was like, okay, this is going to be the best, the best week ever. I get to tell my grandma and my grandpa, but she was the one who was super, super excited. And then we get to find out the sex of the babies. And so I didn't get the email, didn't get the email, and then finally got the email while we were still at her house. So exciting. And opened it and they said, your blood test was inconclusive. It's like, what in the world? Oh, it was so annoying. And so that just happened sometimes. I can't even remember. I think it's called the fetal fraction. Basically, it's the percentage of maternal blood and versus fetal blood cells that they can figure out the sex of the baby from was not high enough, which can happen with twins. And so I went back to my doctor, did another blood test, and it came back inconclusive.

No!

I was like, okay.

It was so annoying.

But at that point, I was like several hundred dollars in because I was so wanting to find out. And so I was like, okay, guess we're doing this a third time because they give you three tries if their blood test comes back inconclusive for some reason. And again, the fetal fraction wasn't high enough. But again, it can happen with twins, twins are weird. And so finally, my doctor was like, okay, let's wait a few weeks. So I waited a few more weeks. So at this point, I've been waiting for like six weeks.

Oh my gosh.

And having paid extra to know what my babies were, right? And yeah, so finally did it at like 16 weeks, got the results. They finally came through, found out it was a boy and a girl. So it said, boy, girl on the level report. And then it also said, your blood test has come back. I can't remember the verbiage, but your baby's tested high risk for trisomy 18, which is a... I'm gonna not say this very well, but it's basically a condition where most babies die before birth. And if they make it to birth, most only lived a few hours or a few days. And if they make it past that, basically no one ever makes it past a year. And so I was like, great, I finally have the students of my babies that I've been wanting to know for eight weeks. But now I have like the potentially devastating news, right? And they can't differentiate. And so it was basically like one or both of your kids basically won't make it past birth. And that was like, that was, I mean, horrifying, obviously. But the hard part was it's not, okay, it's not a diagnostic test. It's a, I forget the word. But basically they weren't saying definitively that one or both had it. They just recognized DNA fragments, I think, in the blood test. And that's all they go off of for anything, for Down syndrome or anything else, is like the DNA fragments in a blood test. And so it was crazy. So we had to make a specialist appointment with doctors at the University of Utah, which is an hour and a half away. I had to wait a month, right? And it was like the worst. It was just like, how do you even move on knowing that, like your first pregnancy, you're full of hope, I've already had this huge surprise of twins, and now maybe one or both of them won't even live, is just a crazy feeling. So finally survived the month, went to the University of Utah, so that they said that they could tell with 95% accuracy. And so I had done so much research, which was both positive and negative. And so I was looking for these specific things on ultrasound, as if I know how to decipher an ultrasound. Like, I don't. But, I don't know, just little things like, usually babies with Trisomy 18 curl up in a certain way, and they have their hands clenched and stuff. And my first sign of hope was that neither baby had their hands clenched. Obviously, that is not foolproof. But I was like, this is the most horrifying thing to even sit through. It's so fun to see your baby, but then you're like, are they even, you know, it was just awful. And my appointments between the ultrasound tech, who cannot tell you a single thing, it's so annoying, to the doctor was like two hours apart. And so I was like, okay, they didn't have their hands clenched. So we had to, you know, and then other things like a lot of Trey's only 18 babies have like clubbed feet, I believe. And I mean, they're tiny, but we could see all their little toes and stuff. And so that was another like green flag basically. But anyways, we finally made it through the ultrasound and to the doctor and she said, well, it doesn't look like there's an issue, which was crazy. It was just like, why are we even like, why would this happen if it's not even, but it just happens with blood tests sometimes and they just give you false flags. So that was a crazy experience.

Yeah. What a relief. I can only imagine just like, and having to just wait all that time. I just, oh my gosh, I feel it pit in my stomach for you. Just like, how did you sleep? Like I would just, oh my gosh, I would do the same thing as you like, just research everything I could, just to have some sort of hope or even just a like grasp of what's going on. I'm so grateful that they were able to tell you, but so sad you had to wait so long. That's just, oh my gosh, that I can't even imagine.

Yeah, it was just like, it was, I mean, it was crazy because I got pregnant so fast, and I just kept thinking of people who have infertility problems or miscarry their first baby or their first few pregnancies or what. I just can't even imagine. I feel like I had it so easy on the fertility side of things, that when I got to that point and I was like, wow, this is something that people go through. This is crazy. Anyways, but basically the doctor was like, yeah, 95% were good, but you could do this invasive test that could cause of stillbirth, I think, is what it would be considered at that point. And I was like, nope, we're good. Their hands were unclenched, we're fine. Yeah. So that was a weird experience. But other than that, I feel like my pregnancy went okay. I was sick for a really long time, but that's twins. But overall, the things that people talk about, I feel like I just didn't have that hard of a time with, which I'm really grateful for. Yeah. So I was sick till 18 weeks, and then I had literally the morning sickness stopped, and the acid reflux began. There was like, no, it would just switch. And so I was like, okay. So that was a horrible feeling. But other than that, I feel like my pregnancy was pretty easy. It was pretty easy on me physically. Like, I have a long torso, so I never really felt like I had run out of room. My kid did end up being born at 32 weeks, though, so I never got huge. But I have friends who are much shorter than me, and had a hard time starting at like 20 to 25 weeks. And so I was grateful for that, because I was like, there has to be some perks of this. Like, of like, avoiding some of the crappy pregnancy symptoms for being this tall. But yeah, so beyond that weird experience, it went okay. And then we were supposed to go on a- oh gosh, I like judge myself for this. But we were supposed to go on a vacation to Hawaii, okay, with my entire family. And yes, I know what you're thinking, you were pregnant twins, what are you doing? But I was like, remember, I was like, go against the medical system, I can do things that people probably wouldn't normally, like it'll be fine. And so I had talked to my doctor and she was fine with it. But, you know, that's a little bit like, what are you going to do if you- because I just didn't think that my kids would come early. I just was like, I'm going to be the one twin mom that doesn't have to deal with this.

Plus it's Hawaii, you got to go to Hawaii!

Right, and like, it was crazy. We had planned this, it was like my whole extended family. And we had been planning this for like a year and a half, and I knew that if I got pregnant when we were planning on it, that I'd be pregnant. I just didn't think I'd be 32 weeks with twins at the time. And so I was a little nervous that I'd have to back out. But look, like, my aunt was 35 weeks on that trip, like, with one baby. And so I was like, it's fine. We'll just go be beach bumps together, like with our big bellies, like, it'll be great. It'll be fine. And literally, when I tell you the morning of our flight, I went into early labor.

Labor: Unnecessary Lifeflight, Size Discrepancy Worries, & a C-Section Delivery

Like, I guess it's better than in the air, but like, barely.

But like, are you freaking serious? Okay, so Hawaii trip is off the table. My parents and everyone were like, went. And I was like, this would happen. But also, I'm grateful it happened in Utah, not in Hawaii, because we would have been stuck in Hawaii for a long time. But yeah, that was crazy. So we went, so I like, well, okay, so I started, I woke up at five in the morning, we were literally supposed to fly, or like leave to the airport at like 8am, okay? And I woke up at five in the morning, and I had had what I thought was maybe contractions, but it's really common in your third trimester to have like Braxton Hicks, which are like fake or practice contractions. And also, it's even more common with twins, and so I didn't, I wasn't experiencing anything that I thought could actually be labor, and I was like, I'm 30, I was 31 weeks, three days. But I just had like this gnawing feeling, and I tried to kind of ignore it and go back to sleep. And I was like, no, this is not, like, you know, your uterus just gets irritable, especially with multiple babies in there. And so I was like, no, this is fine. Like, but I kept waking up, and I finally woke up at like 530, and I was like, I just have this like, you just know thing sometimes. And I just had this serious feeling of like, okay, go to the ER. I was like, okay. So I woke my husband up. We went to the, our local hospital. I was four centimeters, and barely feeling anything. So I was like, are you sure? Are you sure? And four cent, like, are really? Are we sure? And they're like, yep. And we are going to transfer you via helicopter because we don't have a NICU here.

Oh, my goodness.

Because, yeah, before 32 weeks, you need a level three NICU, and our local hospital, because we're kind of in a smaller area of Utah, has just a level two NICU. And so they literally loaded me on a helicopter, on a life flight, and my husband went home to grab our stuff because we were going to be an hour away for who knows how long. And it took them so long to get the helicopter going and do all that they needed to do, that my husband beat me there an hour away. So it took an hour and a half. I was like, isn't the point of this $20,000 life flight to get their ASAP?

Oh my gosh. I could have just gone with him and saved the bill and all the stuff.

Literally, I was like, can I just drive with him? And they were like, no, we won't transfer you. They won't admit you. I was like, they won't admit. Anyways, it was ridiculous.

That's so crazy.

So on the helicopter we went, and I just remember thinking they load you onto a gurney and then load the gurney into the helicopter. And you literally are laying there with the helicopter eight to 10 inches above your face. And I was like, what happens if my babies come out right now? What would happen? I'm on a helicopter, can't even sit up. What is going on? It was the most surreal experience.

That is the craziest thing.

Yeah. This is awesome.

I mean, not, but so interesting too.

Yeah. So it was crazy. And so we got to McCady Hospital in Ogden, and they had stopped my labor, thankfully, but I was still four centimeters and I was still before 32 weeks, so I had to stay there for a while. And my experience at McCady was such an awful experience because I literally landed, got off this helicopter gurney, and then I had this freaking road doctor come in immediately. I didn't even know her name. And she started, like, just lecturing me about how twin moms should never go to a midwife, and it was completely stupid, and why hadn't I gotten prenatal care? And I was like, I have gotten a ton of prenatal care. I've gotten, like, five ultrasounds. Like, what else am I supposed to... And then I went to the specialist to make sure they were okay. Like, what do you mean I haven't gotten prenatal care?

What the heck?

It just is like this OB-GYN versus midwife thing. You know, they just, OB-GYNs look down on midwives, especially out of hospital midwives. I don't know why, because I felt way more comfortable with my midwife than I had with any of the OB-GYNs I had seen.

They're just jealous. They're just jealous that the out of hospital midwives make you feel comfortable more easily.

I guess, yeah. Anyways, it was like, I was like, hi, what's your name? Like, why are you sitting here and lecturing me, telling me I'm a bad mom already? This is the most bizarre experience. And so I literally had to get her, I was like, I'm not talking to this lady anymore, this is ridiculous.

Good for you.

You can disagree with how I'm doing things, but this is my choice and my baby's, like, and my pregnancy. And besides the weird blood test thing, my pregnancy has been fine. And like, they were on track, they were, you know, all the ultrasounds looked good. And so it was the most bizarre thing to have that immediately happen. And it actually happened multiple times at that hospital. So much so, like, again, they can disagree, but they kept, it was like the most fear-mongering, like, like your babies aren't gonna be okay because of this. It was like, what do you mean? Because this doctor, I've gone to this doctor who instills confidence that twins are okay, and twins are a variation of normal, instead of like, be afraid of everything, we're gonna barely make it. Like, seriously, that was the difference. And so, yeah, it was such a horrible experience. And then, so at the hospital, they want to see the babies on monitor the entire time, which was so frustrating because I have two babies in my belly, right? And they're always moving and switching places. And so the nurses were in my room, changing the freaking monitors all the time. And I get that they, that's their responsibility to make sure we're all good. But my husband told me that at some point, they had come in like three times in the middle of the night because my babies kept moving because that's what they do. And my husband was like, so is having this baby's heart rate on the monitor really more important than my wife getting some sleep? And they were like, well, we just, he was like, no, get out.

Yes, snaps. Yes. We love that.

We love that. And then I was like, thank you. I'm going to freaking punch someone if they come in and try to finger out my belly again. Like, this is ridiculous. I mean, they had, they'd had the babies on the monitor for hours and hours and hours. I was like, they're going to be fine if I sleep for five hours, guys. Like, leave me alone. Like I can still, they're still keeping me up picking. It's not like I don't know that they're fine, you know? So that was just, so between the freaking rude doctors and then that, it was just a bad experience.

I'm so sorry.

But what was really bizarre was that they did an ultrasound for, I don't remember what reason, but all of a sudden, after my daughter who was baby A, and baby A means that they're closer to your cervix, and so they're likely going to be born first, and after literally measuring perfectly the whole pregnancy, she was a little smaller than her brother, which is typical. And it's also typical for twins to be not the same size, as long as there's not a huge discordance, which means one baby is much bigger than the other. But she had been an okay size my whole pregnancy, and she had been in the 50th percentile at my last ultrasound three weeks before that. And he had been in the 60th or 70th. All of a sudden, they did an ultrasound, and they were like, baby is tiny, she's not doing well. And I was like, what are you guys even talking about? And after all the negative experiences I'd had with them already, I was like, is it bad that I don't believe you? It feels like you're making stuff up.

Well, they haven't established any form of relationship with you that isn't anything but super negative and weird. I would seriously be the same and be like, can someone else say this to me in a way that a human would talk to another human instead of being totally awful?

Yeah. And so all of a sudden, they wanted me to go to all these specialists. It's called maternal fetal medicine. It's like a pregnancy specialist. And so I went to their MFM department, and they were doing all these high-level ultrasounds. And it seriously, I look back on it, and it seriously feels like it was literally a dream, because she had literally even find my whole pregnancy, and there was no indication of why this was happening or any of that. And ultrasounds in the third trimester are notoriously incorrect. And so I literally was like, I feel like you guys are just turning at me to stay here. I don't even know why this is, anyway, that was kind of just my like immature, like I don't want to be here, like this is dumb.

Sure. Well, it's a very like combative environment that they established the minute you were unloaded. So I feel like it's not really like you're just reacting how someone reacts when someone comes at you like that. Like, I don't even feel like that's overreacting. I hate that.

Yeah. And in addition to like them telling me how wrong I was for my choices, they also were like, your kids are going to, like, if your kids aren't born in the next 48 hours, I'll be shocked and all these things. Even though they had stopped my labor, that wasn't the issue anymore. Now the issue was they were finding this, they were having ultrasound findings that they didn't like. And again, it wasn't an issue of like, I don't care about my baby. Obviously, that's not true. It was just like this super weird, I was like, I literally want to be anywhere but here, where you're treating me like this. And yeah, like they sent the NICU doctor in and gave us like 10 pamphlets about how our kids are gonna be in the NICU for months. And I was just like, no, I'm gonna, it's gonna be fine. I just had this feeling that it was gonna be fine. And what I wanted that to mean was that I was gonna make it to 36 weeks and go to my midwife and everything would be fine and dandy. But really, I'm just, I'm grateful for like the peace I had in the midst of not peaceful experiences, you know? So anyways, it was terrible. They were like scaring us. And I basically, after three days there, I was like, you know, I don't really feel like you guys are even doing anything. My labor's been stopped since an hour after I got off the helicopter like three days ago. And I don't like being here. I'm not sleeping. Like, there's nothing we can do about the ultrasound kind of saying that my daughter's not growing as much as she should. And like, what would have happened in the last three weeks? Anyways, it was just like this weird experience. And so I was like, I'm, I basically was like, okay, I'm going home. So if you guys want me to go see the specialist again, you need to like figure it out. And I'm going to go this morning because I'm leaving this afternoon. And because they had like scheduled it two days out. And I was like, no, I'm not sitting here for two days to go see your ultrasound guy, like figure it out, you know? But I wasn't, I wasn't scared. And so I was like, I'm going to go home. There's nothing that they can do to change that. And so they were like, okay, fine. You can go home because you turn 32 weeks tomorrow, which was the whatever it's called for, like, I could go to my local hospital with the level 2 NIC, you know, at 32 weeks. 32 weeks is like what they call like the lung milestone. And so babies do a lot better breathing if they're born after 32 weeks. And that's what our hospital could handle. So we went home, things were good. They told me that like bed rest wouldn't make a difference, but I kind of put myself on bed rest because I was like, I don't know what else to do. They're like, basically, once you go into early labor, the chances of you making it full term are slim. But I was like, you know what, there's nothing I can do about it. And so I'm just going to live my life and be a little more careful. But I was never doing anything risky to begin with. And apparently, you can have a UTI without any symptoms. And that's what caused me to go into labor. So that was fun. But, you know, everyone always talks about how often you have to pee when you're pregnant. And that hadn't happened to me yet until the week before, the week that I went into labor. And so I was like, oh, this is just like third trimester pregnancy. And so I didn't have any other symptoms besides needing to pee all the time, which they said was... Or, you know, that's just, I feel like that's a pretty common known thing about pregnancy is like, you have a baby sitting on your bladder, right?

Yeah.

And so, yeah, that was the only symptom I had, but it ended up being like, that was the reason that I went into pre-term labor. So once that happens, they can't, like your cervix doesn't close back up, unfortunately. And so, they basically were like, the chances of you making it to 36 weeks or more are slim, but I was like, no, fam, it's going to be fine. But I did kind of put myself on modified bed rest to kind of just feel good about, like, I'm doing what I can to not overextend myself. So I got out of the hospital on Monday, and then the week went on as normal. I went to work, my husband went to work. That Saturday, we went on a date, and life kind of felt like, like it kind of felt like it was going fine again. And I kind of was like starting to relax because the doctor had said, like, basically, it's going to be in the next couple of days, or it's going to be a few weeks. And I was like, okay, we've kind of gotten past a couple of days. And that Sunday, everything was fine. We went, like we went to church, we did all the stuff we normally do. And then around 7, I think, I got kind of a backache. And I was like, okay, this happens. I'm pregnant, you know? So I was like, I was like, hubby, come give me a back rub, you know? And it was fine. And it kind of got worse. And it wasn't, again, it wasn't anything like, you have these expectations of what labor will be like. And that was not what it was like. And so I was like, like, I wasn't even concerned about it, honestly. But then it kind of started, it like didn't go away. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to take a shower, I'm going to call my doctor. And at this point, I had been transferred from my midwife to what's called co-care with an OB-GYN. And what was going to happen is I was going to see the OB until I hit 36 weeks, which was when my midwife could take over again. Because you have to be 36 weeks to go to a birth center in Utah. And I think that's pretty standard, actually. But anyways, so I called the OB, and they were like, yeah, you should probably go to labor and delivery. And I was like, okay. And that was after a couple of hours of having this backache. And it was just getting a little more concerning because it wasn't stopping. A shower hadn't stopped it. My husband rubbing my back hadn't stopped it. I was like, okay, maybe there's more to it. And so I went to Labor and Delivery and I was seven and a half centimeters.

Oh my gosh.

I barely even knew it.

That is amazing.

Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't have described that as I was just like, oh shoot, maybe something's happening again, but definitely didn't think I was three centimeters more than I had before. And so at that point, I was in active labor and they can't stop it at that point. And obviously, going to a midwife my whole pregnancy, I had been just stuck on having a vaginal delivery, because again, people jump straight to cesareans. But I had talked to so many people, done so much research, talked to multiple doctors, and really that's something they jump to because a lot of OBGYNs are just not educated enough about multiples. But unless there's some complication, there's not really a reason to jump to cesarean, like if the mom's doing fine and the babies are doing fine, right? Yeah. And so I had been so set on having a vaginal delivery. And again, it was like my mom just had a horrible experience with her cesarean. And so I was like, well, I'm not doing that. And now I'm great. I'm now in labor at seven and a half centimeters. These babies will be out really soon based on past, you know, how quickly I'm going anyways. And my doctor wasn't at the hospital. And so they called him and he was like, okay, prep her for a c-section. And I was like, what? And they're and they're like, yeah, he wants let's we're going to the OR. And I was like, hi, no, we're not. Why? Why? And they were like, oh, because baby A is super tiny and baby B is super large. And they didn't know that. That was just what they were afraid of. And there's like this complication that happens in one in like a thousand or more twin births, where the first baby comes out and then your cervix closes back up. It's very, very rare. And apparently, if baby B is larger than baby A and that happens, then sometimes it can become an emergency. And they're like, well, you don't want to deliver one and then still have a C-section. I was like, actually, I'd like I would literally prefer that. I don't like, I don't know. It just felt all wrong. And it was, I've used the word crazy 20 bazillion times.

But like, no, yeah, I think it is accurate, right? Like just such a crazy thing, right? Like, yeah, all these things.

Yeah. So there was so he he like said the word. The nurse told me that. And then literally there was 20 people in my tiny little triage room. And they were like, sign this, do this to my husband. And they were like, here's your whatever it's called, that you have to put on to be in surgery with someone. And I was like, hi, no, I'm like, what do you mean you're going to do surgery? I don't want surgery. And there's no, there's no actual indication. I get that there's a small chance of this complication, but I'm not scared. Why are you scared? You know? And that's what I kind of felt like I had to battle my whole pregnancy is like, all these people are scared and I'm not. And, you know, there, of course, there can be situations where you're not knowing something. And so your doctor scared and you don't know what's up type of thing. But I do not feel like that was the case. Yeah. I felt like I had done as much research and as much discussion with all these people who knew about twin pregnancies as I could. I don't know. I hear all these birth stories where they're like, yeah, and then the doctor said we might have to do a C-section. And I was scared and I wanted to do the C-section. I wanted my baby to be okay. And obviously, I did too. But I was like, there was no fear. And so to me, when I don't feel nervous about something, to me, it's because it's fine to continue, typically. And so it was so scary to even try to talk to all these people who were buzzing around trying to prep me for a surgery. I was saying no to. And finally, this nurse was like, you guys look really anxious. Let me get everybody out so you can actually talk about it, because this is an important decision. And I was like, thank you. You guys are not respecting even my ability to discuss this with my husband before I consent to surgery. And that should not be happening.

No.

If it was an emergency situation, okay. But my babies were fine. I was fine. Nothing was happening. And the stages of grief, I don't remember the order, but at first you're sad, then you're pissed off. I'm definitely in the pissed off phase. Because again, if there had been some indication, if my kids' heart rates had been going down, if there had been some issue, I would not have told them no at that point. Obviously, I'm so grateful for medical intervention. I'm so grateful for the ultrasounds and things that told me my babies were fine when we had the trisomy 18 scare. I'm totally all for medical intervention at the appropriate times. But this is what I had been trying to avoid my whole pregnancy, was the doing things based on fear. And they were like, yeah, the doctor is worried that this will happen. And I was like, but what are the chances of it happening? They were like, oh, tiny chance, but he doesn't want to take the risk. I'm like, okay, it feels really unfair that it's my body and my delivery and my pregnancy, and I get you're my doctor, and that's great. But shouldn't this be a discussion, not just you telling me how I'm going to deliver my twins? Like, totally. It was so frustrating. But thank goodness that nurse got everyone out, and my husband and I were finally able to just breathe for a second. And we kind of said a prayer, and it just felt horrible. It was not what I wanted, it was not. But we did ultimately feel okay about going forward, because what's worse, like your doctor not being confident in being able to help you, or your doctor doing something that they're confident in, you know? And so looking back, I would have said no, I'll be honest. Because of the rest of the story, I feel like if I could go back, I would definitely fight them and say, no, I'd rather take the risk, and I'm fine with it, and it's my body and my decision. But I felt so zapped of the energy to do that, and my husband didn't know how to advocate for me either, and that's not his fault. I feel like that's mostly what happens when it's your first baby and your first experience. It's scary to stand up to medical professionals, and I feel like we've done it pretty well at the other hospital, but then it was just kind of like, do we just have to keep fighting this hard? Anyways, they took me into surgery, and my surgery went well. At that gestation, I was 32 weeks, 5 days, and at that gestation, babies don't always come out crying, and so they had told me that, but both of my babies came out screaming. It was a great, I mean, people say like, the best sound in the world is their babies screaming, and I feel like I was a little bit out of it because it just, everything was happening so fast. But I can confirm, it's a good thing to hear your baby screaming. I'm like, yes, in a few months, that'll be such an annoying sound. But right now, it's great, you know. Right now, I'm so glad that they are breathing and screaming and doing well.

Postpartum: NICU Stays, Newborn Bubble, Postpartum Depression, & Learning to Bond

And so they were wrapped up and kind of brought over to me, but I couldn't hold them because they had to go to the NICU. But one really special thing that I hope I'll always remember is that they were both screaming. I had screaming little bundles to either side of my head, and my husband was holding one and the nurse was holding the other. And I just said, hi guys. And my son, like, it's such a sweet thing to remember. My son just stopped crying and just looked at me. And he, I mean, they've been screaming their heads off, which is what they should be doing at that point. And he just went silent and just looked at me. And little did I know that that was an indication of how much of a mama's boy he would be.

Oh my gosh.

But it was so sweet. And my daughter kept on screaming, and that's indicative of her personality now, too. She just is a fighter and stubborn. And of course, that was what she was supposed to be doing. But yeah, so they took them to the NICU, and they like stitched me up and did all that. And my husband followed them to the NICU. And it felt like forever, but you kind of, on that much medication, you're kind of like in a daze, and you don't know what's happening, kind of. Like I was aware, but I didn't know how much time had passed. And so after they were done with the surgery, they, I think they took me to recovery for a little while. And then they took me down into the NICU, where I was able to hold them. And that, yeah, I think it was like a couple hours after they were born, I finally got to hold them. But my husband had been holding them and they were doing well. It was so, it was so fun to be able to hold both of them. And like, I'm so glad that they were doing well enough that I was able to do that. They were wrong about my daughter being tiny. She had lost a little bit of her percentage, but basically they told me that she was IUGR, which is entry uterine growth restriction, which is like a diagnosis that a lot of people get, which is, I believe, the third percentile or below, so really tiny for the gestation. And she was in the 40th percentile.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

What an air ball!

And like, I'm so glad that that was the reality, but also it pissed me off because they made all these decisions based on her being tiny. They did all this fear mongering. And I know that technology isn't infallible, but I was like, that's why it should be a discussion, not just a, I'm scared of this tiny possibility and you have to do this because of it.

Yeah.

And so she was a pretty good weight. She was so, they were both, I mean, it's crazy to see a baby that has been born at 32 weeks because they're like fully formed, obviously, but there's no fat on their bodies.

Yeah.

And so we used to laugh because they weren't like skin and bones, like a baby that's super, super early, but they had no bum. Like it just went from their back to their legs. It was so funny. It's such a- and so yeah, we just laughed about that a lot because we just were like, there's just no bum, it's just straight.

That's so cute.

So they were a really good size. They were 17 and a half and 18 inches long, which is like almost a normal newborn size.

Yeah, I was going to say those are long little babies.

Yeah. So obviously there were some emotional things there on my pregnancy, like the C-section, but I was in shock when it was happening. There was not really time to process it or fight back or anything. And this is like where the, the, I think anger is a bit strong, but like the piss, the pissed off, you know, feeling even two years later, I'm like, I'm like, maybe I shouldn't be pissed off at this point. But I feel like so many things were taking away from me. And like that happens a little bit with twins because there's two of them and there's extra things that have to happen because of that. And then it also happens, like it was nobody's fault that I went into labor early. But because of the combination of things, I just feel like I was kind of robbed of the delivery I wanted. Then my kids had to go in the NICU. They couldn't come home with me. I couldn't sit in my recovery room holding them. And so it was just all these experiences that you kind of just expect to have were kind of taken away. And when I put it that way, there's like so many more things that could have been taken away. Like, you know, like, if my kids had had TRIsomy 18, or I have a friend who like had a bunch of complications and delivered her daughter at 30 weeks and she died, like the baby died. And so like, obviously, there's so many worse situations, but you know, everyone's still entitled to like feeling their feelings about their situation, you know?

Absolutely, yeah.

And so it's been hard for me to like get past just, I don't know, you just expect all these things, like everyone talks about, like the golden hour of holding your babies and breastfeeding if that's your goal. And all these things kind of just were taken away. And that's been really hard for me to like process. And then also, my son had a pretty typical NICU experience. He was in there for three and a half weeks, which was, I mean, that's a long time to be at home without your baby, you know? But like, they were born at 32 weeks, and so we knew that that's what was going to happen. We went every day, and my goal was to breastfeed him, so I was able to start breastfeeding them after a couple of weeks, which was really exciting and a really good moment for me, because I wasn't sure I would be able to after everything that happened. Because like, twins make you less likely, C-section makes you less likely, early delivery makes you less likely, and so that's one thing that went pretty well for us, and I'm really so grateful for that. But anyways, he came home after three and a half weeks, and it was like just a dream come true. He was just like how he stopped screaming immediately when I talked to him right after he was born. He just was so sweet. He just wanted me all the time, which at that point, I was so happy to do, you know, because his sister was in the hospital, and it was still hard to deal with that, and so I was like, but at least I have this baby who just like would literally, like sometimes it was stressful, right? Because he didn't even want my husband to hold him while I like took a shower, right? But like overall, it was such just a dream experience. I was so happy to have him home. It was so hard to not like feel depressed without my babies at home. And so I was so grateful for that. And there were like some things that happened in the NICU, like the NICU is hard because these doctors and nurses are like taking care of your baby and you're so grateful. But there were so many things that they would like ask us about like our permission for like Evelyn, my daughter was starting to have some weird complications. And so that's why Henry came home and she didn't. And so there were a bunch of things where they called us and asked for permission or asked our opinion on, and we would give it and they would literally do the exact opposite. And we're like, is that my child or is that your child?

It was just like, why would they even ask if they're, I don't know what the point of it was. Yeah.

Yeah. Because they literally, I mean, of course, they did some things that we requested, but other things, yeah, I don't need to get into that. But it was just like another kind of frustrating experience. And so, when I went to the hospital to visit my daughter, and I was taking my son with me, obviously, it was kind of like, even though I wanted to be with her, it was kind of a stressful experience. And so, but anyways, what I'm trying to say is, what really got me through that is that I just had this sweet baby who I could just, you know, cuddle all the time, and it was so good to have that at that point, after all the hardships we'd gone through, to just have at least one of them home, and just be able to, like, like talk about, like people talk about, like the newborn bubble and stuff. And I feel like I didn't get that. But when I was at home with my little baby son, you know, it was like, okay, I see why people call this the newborn bubble, because it's just so wonderful. And then Evelyn, I'll kind of skip over her issues, because there was a lot, but she was just struggling a little bit. And so it took her forever to come home. And again, it was like, I was so grateful for the NICU, because at 32 weeks, I don't know if my kids would have survived without it, really. Like they did okay, but like, you know, just grateful for medical technology, you know. But by the end of that experience, it was kind of just so frustrating. I was just so ready to be done and so ready to like have my babies home. Like, I'd always, you know, I'd always pictured just having them and taking them home. And that's not what happened. Anyways, the point of this is she came home and unbeknownst to us, they had changed her way of feeding, like taking a bottle right before we brought her home. And that was significant because she had a feeding disorder. And so we were so happy to have her home. It had been such a long six weeks without her, and then three weeks with only her brother home. But then it was like literally the hardest week, maybe of my life, because she couldn't eat, and we didn't know what was going on. And so she was screaming all the time. Nobody slept. And...

Oh my gosh.

I feel like anyone would struggle in that situation with like a baby with medical issues, like that's so hard. But it was this crazy, again, there's that word, this crazy change between like things were going great with my son, and I kind of got a glimpse of the newborn bliss or bubble or whatever you want to call it. And then my other baby, who I like wanted so badly to come home, came home and it was a literal nightmare. And I felt so horrible as a mom even feeling that way, because I was like, she's my daughter. I've like, like literally, when I was pregnant, I was like, I just, I was so hoping for a daughter and I got her and I'm so grateful. And then it was like, she came home and it was just like the hardest experience of my life. Like the first two, three months that they were first, that they, after they came home, were like the hardest of my life, honestly. And we had so much help, we had local help, we had my mom flew in multiple times. You know, we had, and like my best friend, so sweet, she like brought her one and a half year old, flew across the country to come visit me, took care of me for a week. It was like so sweet. Like we couldn't have asked for much more in that department. But my twins were just so difficult. It was like the combination, right, of like, just newborns are hard, multiple newborns are hard, a newborn with health problems are hard, premature babies are hard. It was just like this crazy, like... There's that word again.

No, I mean...

I'm trying to find synonyms, but like, this was just my experience. Yeah. Yeah, it just felt so hard. And luckily, we were able to figure out her feeding issues eventually. It took about four months though, before she was more content baby, because she was finally able to eat enough, which was just so sad. But yeah, it was just such a horrible feeling, because I... You know, your postpartum, your hormones, like they say, like, postpartum is like the biggest hormone drop a human can experience. Yeah. So you have that. I was recovering from surgery. Like, you're bleeding, you have all these issues, and then you're trying to take care of a newborn. And I was trying to take care of two newborns. One who, I mean, Henry didn't really sleep either, but like specifically Evelyn never slept. And so, and she couldn't eat, the poor little thing. I felt so bad for her, but I just felt like this horrible guilt too, because I was like, I felt like life with just my son home was pretty doable. And then life with both of them home is just horrible, and I hate it. And I'm like, a lot of women go through this, I'm sure, even with one baby. I feel like one baby is so hard too. But after Evelyn came home was when like my postpartum depression kind of started, and it was just such a horrible feeling, because I was like, it's not her fault, but because it coincided with her coming home, it was so hard to even see reality sometimes in my head of like, of course I love her and I want her home and I want to hold her and all these things, but because it had coincided so badly, it was just this horrible feeling of guilt, of like, it's horrible to even say, but I wish she could go back, you know what I mean? No, it's just like, and I'm so grateful for my mom because she didn't have twins, but she had a real struggle with postpartum depression. And specifically after I was born, I was her oldest, I'm her oldest, and kind of a similar situation, like super traumatic end of pregnancy and birth. And then I had some complications as a newborn as well. And so I literally was on the phone with her one day and I was like, Mom, I feel, and the reason I'm saying this is because I want it to be more normal, not because it's not hard for me to like, you know, does that make sense?

No, yeah.

Like, it's hard for me to even think about how I was having these thoughts, but it would have changed the game for me to know that this was something that women experience. And so I was on the phone with her one day and I was just like, Mom, this feels terrible, but I want to go cuddle Henry. And not, like, it sounds really bad.

No, no.

But I'm so grateful for my mom because she was like, you know, you're going through something that's so, so difficult and you're having these feelings and thoughts. And I promise you that you won't always feel this way about her. Like, you, I know you love her, but this is just a really hard situation. And we're already prone to postpartum depression in our family. And so anyways, I just wanted to say that because it really helped me to know that, like, even though we feel things sometimes, they're not always reality and it does get better. And even if you, even if you have one baby, and you're feeling that way about them, like, oh, I, like, even, like, I've heard people say, like, oh, I wish I could go back and maybe not even get pregnant. Like, just the, these thoughts that people have, whether it's, like, just adjusting to mom life or adjusting to a new baby, or if it's actually postpartum depression, like, these thoughts come. And at the time, I did not feel this, but knowing what I know now, like, it doesn't make you a bad mom, it doesn't change the fact that you'll love your children forever. I just want to emphasize the fact that, like, I do not feel that way about her anymore. Like, like, I adore her. I... It's so special to look into your toddler's eyes. And, and I'm sure that this happens with boys, too. I have one of each, but, like, I sometimes just look at her and she's just so sweet and precious. And I just think we're gonna be best friends forever. And it's so fun and so exciting. And I just, yeah, you know, and I think that's what was so impactful about my mom being so open with her, with me, about her experience when I was a newborn, is, like, it was a similar situation. And my mom struggled and struggled and thought, like, my friends adore their babies. Why don't I have the same? And it's not that you don't love your baby. It's just, like, this cloud is over the experience, is how I would describe it. Because once the cloud lifts, it's like, oh, no, I, like, of course I just adore her. She's just my best friend, you know? And so is Henry. There's no...

It's like... Yeah, like, there's no comparison. There's no nothing, because it's like you love them with your whole heart as individuals, you know?

Yeah. And so, yeah, anyways, so I just want other moms to, like, know that if you're feeling that way, like, you're not going to feel that way forever. And like I said, I was so glad that my mom was so open with me about that, even though it was like the first time she told me that was before I was even married, I believe. And it was like, oh, like my mom didn't like me as a baby. But actually, no, that's not what it was. And, you know, it's easier to understand once you experience it. But yeah, to be able to see, like, that like just because we have those feelings or something doesn't mean, doesn't determine the relationship or, or your motherhood or anything in the future.

So absolutely no such a great, so well put, like just such a great reminder and like such an even a level headed analysis of it, right? Of like, yeah, like two things can totally be true, right? And like, yeah, it doesn't like you've been saying the whole time. Like, it's not her. It's not anything. It's literally this, like, hormonal insanity, like it's just and I, you know, even, you know, as someone who hasn't gone through it, I don't know how you feel, but I feel like the way that you've been describing it is so helpful for me to like, it's very illustrative, right? Of like, okay. No, like, seriously, it's been, it's like, there's not a single thing that I'm like, okay, what the heck are you talking about? Like, it really, yeah, no, no. So I really, really appreciate your, your honesty and all the things today. And, you know, I know that you have a lot going on in your world, and I want to take too much more of your time, but I just always love to ask if you could go back and tell your pre-mom self something, what would you tell her?

To My Pre-Mom Self…

Oh, man. Well, I would say that it's gonna be harder than you even think is possible, but, um, and I don't want to say some, like, little toxic positivity thing. Like, that has not been my experience. Like, it's not like, oh, this is so hard, but better than I could have imagined. Yes, in some ways, it has been. But, but, like, I feel like it's worth it to say to yourself, like, experience the hard things, and it can stop there for a while. You don't have to, like, be like, oh, but I love being a mom more than- because I do now, but that's taken two years of perspective. And, you know, even a year and a half ago, my- okay, so my kids are about to turn two next week, and they don't sleep very well still, which is not what I expected.

Yeah.

Um, and even a year ago, it felt like the end of the world, like, to be really dramatic. It felt like the end of the world. It was like, I don't know how I'll ever do this again. I don't know how I'll ever survive this. I don't know. Even like, it's like to be super vulnerable again. Like, it's super hard on your marriage when no one's sleeping. It's super hard. It just, there was no, like, I just was like, there's no way people do this and survive. And like, but I would tell myself that you will survive. And, and truly, even though to me, it doesn't always balance out as in like, motherhood is really hard and also really awesome. Like, I don't feel like it always balances out, but there are some moments of such pure joy that in conjunction with those really hard moments, you're just like, okay, if it's like, it's better that it's up and down rather than just down, down, down. And so I don't know if that makes sense, but I feel like sometimes people are like, oh, it's really hard, but it's the best thing I've ever done. And yes, I feel that way sometimes, but just to be real, like sometimes it's really hard. And sometimes you're like, man, I wanted five kids, but I don't know how we're ever going to do this again. Or I have wanted to be a mom since I was seven, true story, right? But like this is genuinely the most challenging thing I've ever gone through. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. So that's what I would tell myself is, sometimes the hard does outweigh the easier, you're enjoyable, but it gets better, and you'll love your kids more than you can even stardom at this point.

Yeah. How powerful. I love that perspective of like, just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not worth doing. Like, in fact, like some of the most worthwhile things in life are the hardest. And not like trying to mitigate the difficulty of it to try to whatever, but like, to kind of accept and lean into the difficulty to say, like, no, this is hard. And that's why it's incredible. It's because it's like intense and life altering and, you know, like all the things. I love that. I'm like getting chills from like that, because I think it's such a powerful perspective and truly one that you're just like radiating. And so I'm just so grateful that you shared your story today and that you're using your voice to like bring it like to mitigate the fear, right? Of like, no, just because other people around you are freaking out and all this stuff, like you do not have to lean into that fear. You can, yeah, you know, listen to yourself first and foremost. And then also to even in your like authentic, honest reflections of the difficult things. I don't feel fearful from what you're saying because you have such a perspective of groundedness and of like, no, this, even though this is so insanely crazy hard, like it is like there's purpose in it. And so I'm just so grateful to have that that message here. And I'm grateful for you sharing that with us today.

All right, y'all, wasn't that such a wild ride? I have listened to this episode a couple of times, and I am consistently blown away by how well Madeline advocated for herself and for her babies, especially as a first time mom, and with those extra curve balls thrown her way, just absolutely incredible. And it's worth saying again, I am so grateful for her honest bravery and sharing about her postpartum experience. I know she's not the only one who has struggled with bonding while battling the many postpartum emotions, but those stories often aren't shared because of how personal they are, which totally, totally makes sense. But for her to come on here and bravely be exactly the kind of voice of hope that she needed during that difficult time is such a beautiful and powerful thing to behold. So I am so grateful that she shared her story with us today. Also, along the lines of sharing stories, I know many of y'all saw my Instagram story yesterday, but in case you missed it, the Labor Line website is live, which I'm so excited about. There are so many things I could talk about, but I just want to highlight the Share Your Story tab over on the menu. This podcast is only possible because of the amazing women who have shared their stories with us. And so I'm now inviting you to share your story with us, dear listener. Now, before you start listing 5002 reasons why you couldn't go on a podcast, let me just say that editing is a beautiful thing. If you've been listening and you're thinking to yourself, I don't speak as clearly as these other women, or I have no idea how to be on a podcast. Let me tell you, absolutely nobody does. Editing makes everyone sound way more direct and well-spoken than anyone actually is. You can ask any of my previous friends on the episodes. I have made more mistakes than they have during recording. And you know what? We just edit and we move on, and it's great. So I would love for you to head over to thelabourline.com and consider sharing your story. Or if you know someone who has an amazing story, which by the way, literally every birth is amazing. So also don't compare your birth story to other people's. But if you have a friend that loves talking birth, please send that link to them as well. And with that, that's all we have for this week. So, friend, same time next week.

K, love you, bye!