RhoGAM Shots + ICP Diagnosis | Lauren’s Birth Stories

Meet Lauren

I remember I was like, is it too late to ask for the epidural? And the nurse just like got in my face, and she's like, you're meant to do this. You can do this. You're having this baby. Like she didn't even give me time to even flirt with the idea of getting an epidural, because I think she knew how close I was.

Hey y'all, welcome to The Labor Line, a non-mom's authentic look into the birth experiences of her mom friends. I'm your host, Emily, and today I am joined by my lifelong friend, Lauren. Our families became friends before I was even born, and so I have truly never known a time without Lauren in my life. As y'all well know at this point, I don't have any sisters of my own, so in a lot of ways, Lauren and her sister, Kristen, were the closest thing I had to sisters growing up.

In fact, I don't even think they know this, but they were my little teeny tiny two-year-old self's muse for being potty trained. So they're very important people in my life. The story goes that one day, while having them over to play, I saw a pair of princess undies that they had, and I was like, wait a minute, what are those cute things? Why am I wearing this ugly, bland, embarrassing diaper? I wanted my own pair of princess undies so badly. So my mom was like, well, this could be a good way to start talking about potty training. So she's explaining it to me, and I think somewhere along the way, she was like, and maybe someday, if you go without having accidents, you can get your own pair of princess undies. And my brain read that as, oh, so if I don't have accidents, I can get these princess undies. And so, your girl potty trained herself essentially in like a matter of days just to get these princess undies. My mom was like, yeah, I just kind of, you know, I had this whole plan and whatever. But then you just stopped having accidents. And like you really didn't have accidents that much ever again. And so, needless to say, I was very motivated. My eye was on the prize and they were glorious. I in fact got a whole variety pack with lots of different princesses. And who knows, who knows where I'd be today if I hadn't had my cool older girlfriends to look up to, I may have never found my motivation to be potty trained. Who knows?

No, of course, just kidding, but they have been such a special part of my life. They're both tall as well. They also have curly hair that they figured out how to work with so much better than I ever did. But it was just so sweet to talk to Lauren about her experience. And it really did feel like talking to a sister. She is such an amazing person. She is a licensed marriage and family therapist and an amazing mom to three super cute, super fun boys. As you'll see, she's super easy to talk to, which is probably why she rocks at her therapist job. And she shares things in a way that are real, but grounded or like approachable, I'd say. We talk about some really important things today, but never at any point did it feel heavy or overwhelming, which I really appreciate as a person that gets easily worked up one way or another. So today she will share about all three of her experiences, including two epidurals that only half worked, which is wild and sounds horrible, and a quick unmedicated birth with her third son. She also has experiences utilizing the RhoGAM shot, which is something that I had never heard of before her story. And neither of us are experts on it, and so I made sure to link the official RhoGAM website below for like the most accurate information. But basically, if a mother has a negative blood type and her baby has a positive blood type, and you know, the blood filters through, and at some point, baby's blood gets in mom's blood a little bit. And mom's body can mistake the baby's blood as like a threat, and it will form antibodies to try to fight off the foreign blood cells. And so that's obviously super dangerous for both mom and baby. But there's this incredible shot that you can get that basically eliminates that confusion. It like sends decoy antibodies or whatever. Again, I'm not a scientist, but I think that is super cool. And again, check out the link to learn more about it. I had never heard about it before. So super interesting, super important. It's she says this, but it's like part of the regular screening and everything. But it's just interesting to know that that's something that's medically necessary. And I'm grateful we live in a world where that's figured out.

She also shares about her experience with ICP, or the long name is intrahepatic cholestasis of pregnancy, which Mariah briefly mentioned cholestasis in her episode last week with like her itchiness near those last couple days of her pregnancy. Today, Lauren deep dives into her experience having been diagnosed early on in pregnancy after having a great doctor who thankfully took the early symptoms seriously and helped her safely carry and deliver her son. Lastly, Lauren also shares about a very difficult postpartum experience that she had with her second son, including anxiety, OCD tendencies, even psychosis. And she talks about how she got help through medication therapy and her village around her. I will give a trigger warning. There is some brief talk about suicidal ideation during that second postpartum experience. I will have timestamps in the episode description. So if you click on the episode title, it should pop up with more info. So I will have those marked. And as always, I have the chapters divided by each experience for each pregnancy so that you can more easily navigate each episode. I say it at the end of our conversation, and I'll say it again here. This episode was such a cup filler for me. Lauren has this very approachable air about her, and we really truly just had a blast recording together. I'm sure that you'll feel that as you listen today. So I'm so excited for y'all to hear her thoughts and her experience. So let's jump right in.

Welcome to the podcast, Lauren. Thank you for being here. Tell us a bit about yourself and what you and your cute family have been up to.

Lauren with Jett, Archie, & Cash

Oh my goodness. So Emily, thank you so much for having me. I'm so honored. So yes, I'm working mom and super part time. So I only work Mondays and then some evenings during the week. And my focus there is I do a lot of work with couples. And so we focus a lot on like betrayal trauma. And I do a lot of infidelity. And so I'm kind of in the throes with couples and that. But when I'm not doing that, most of my time is at home being a mom. My boys are crazy and they're so fun, but they're just a lot of energy. And so some days I feel like I'm pulling my hair out. And then what's fun about boys though, is they will drive you crazy and then they'll be coming in for the hugs. They just know how to just soften the blow with how crazy they are. And a lot of it too is just like we're trying to enjoy summer. So it's a little bit of work in terms of my job and a lot of work as a mom right now.

Yeah, absolutely. No, I can only imagine being at home in the summer with three very energetic boys in very different stages of that energy. So for you to be also helping people process very heavy things, even though, like you said, it's part time still, for you to have enough in your cup, maybe to help other people is just absolutely incredible. Total Wonder Woman level activity right there.

Thank you. And you're so sweet.

1st Pregnancy: Positive Introduction Into Motherhood

Well, I'm so excited to hear about each one of these experiences. So if you're ready, we can kind of jump in by starting with, like, what was your journey to becoming pregnant the first time?

So, awesome question. We, Colton and I both, my husband, he and I both wanted kids, and pretty early on, we wanted it to happen as soon as we could. That was a big goal that we shared. And so we were married for about a year before I found out that I was pregnant with Jett, our oldest, he's eight now. Oh, my gosh. It's crazy. I can't believe that. I was talking to someone today and they said, isn't he going to be getting into third grade? And I said, yes. Like, don't remind me. That's crazy. So it just goes by fast. But with us, we, I'm very grateful. It was fairly easy for us to get pregnant. And my pregnancy with him was very, honestly, like textbook. And just when I look back at his pregnancy, I like miss how it was with him because I loved it. It was the pregnancy that I just, it was, I was not sick. I really just didn't have any issues in terms of that. And so with him, I have a lot of fond memories of it. No, it's not the case with all three of my pregnancies, but I looked back at his and I remember how excited I was being a first time mom and just being pregnant with him. It got me really excited for the motherhood role, for sure.

That's so tender. That's such a sweet thing for it to be like this tender time. And I'm sure, you know, after you're first, you aren't just pregnant on your own. Like you're pregnant with a toddler or pregnant with two toddlers or kids. And so for that to be something that you can look back on with fondness and like kind of a sweet just kind of moment with just the two of you. Honestly, that's so tender and sweet.

Yeah, you saying that makes me, reminds me about how much guilt I had when I was pregnant with Archie. Like I had this really good bond with Jett. He was four when I gave birth to Archie, and I just had so much guilt that I was bringing in another because I just had this big deep love for him that I was so worried about, like, how am I going to give him the same amount of time and attention?

Sure.

You know, that I've like dedicated for it's just been he and I. And so it's and I'm it was really interesting with that dynamic because, like, I look back at that now and I still have like, I had guilt that I felt that way because once Archie came, it was obvious, like, my heart was big enough to love both, you know? And so it's just, you just get in your head though about stuff when you're giving life, right? You're no pressure, right?

Exactly. I was going to say like, well, it's only like the most incredible life-changing thing ever. So like, why wouldn't you get in your head about it? Right? That totally makes sense. And I feel like even I remember my mom saying that similarly of like, with every baby, I was like, how am I going to love this next baby as much as I love my babies I have now? And it's just such a tender thing how your heart truly does grow, you know?

Yes.

This is like a teeny bit of a tangent, but I think you'll think it's funny. So for listeners, I have three older brothers and then I have one younger brother. And when my younger brother, Mitch, was a little boy, I was so jealous of the attention and whatever. And so one time I was going to move away, I was going to run away. And so I was packing up my bags and being all dramatic. I was probably like four. A drawl on it? Yeah. He's like this one-year-old little cute baby, and I'm just like, can't handle, I can't share the spotlight, apparently. And I remember my cute mom was just like such a goddess about the whole thing, and she was like, oh, honey, where are you going? I was like, I'm running away. You know, you don't love me, whatever. And so she was like, she told me, she's like, well, honey, like with every baby, my heart doubles in size. And so like you have just as much room in my heart as you did before Mitchell came and whatever, whatever. And that was enough to calm my little dramatic self. But it's like a thing, you know, I guess I think it goes with both ways sometimes to, you know, there's just a lot of change that comes with that. So anyway, side tangent, but…

Spoken like a true mom, though, right? Like, yeah, just it's, you know, in the moment as us moms, like we really do internalize a lot. But once you kind of get into it, you have one and then two, you start to kind of learn the ropes a little bit. And so your mom's a great example for that, for sure.

Thank you. Your mom, too. We're blessed with wonderful women in our lives, for sure.

I definitely have to agree with that. Absolutely. Well, sorry, to get us back on track. Sorry, this is what happens when we have lifelong friends in the pod. We just can talk about anything forever.

Literally.

But, well, I'm so glad that it felt like a textbook pregnancy with Jett. I'm curious, how did you feel preparing for labor, like working with your doctors and everything? Like, did you feel supported? What did you do to feel prepared, I guess, is the question.

Yeah, for sure. Oh my gosh. So he was born in April. And I distinctly remember in January, like, I was loving pregnancy, things were going great. And then in January, I had a pretty big panic attack in the middle of the night because I swear it just hit me right in my face. Like, I'm going to have to take care of this living thing. I'm going to have to be so responsible for this. So I started to get really anxious too at that point. And so I really did a lot of, like, just research reading books. And I, looking back on my experience with the doctors that I had, I was down in Utah County when I was pregnant with Jett. And they did because, right, go figure there's so many moms in that area. A lot of the clinics there have rotating doctor schedules. And so I didn't have a specific doctor who I was with. And that changed when I had Archie and Cash, which I'm so grateful for because my OB-GYN is absolutely incredible right now. And I wish I had a doctor that I, like, I wish I advocated to get a doctor that I really trusted and felt comfortable with, because I feel like that would have helped me going into labor of not worrying about, oh, who am I going to get? Because I didn't know what doctor was going to help deliver Jett at that point. And so, luckily, it was a very good doctor, but I think my experience just being a first-time mom would have been better if I had advocated that for myself, of knowing, right, in retrospect, I know that now.

You know, if I could tell others, like, that would be one thing, is to try and find a doctor that you really trust. And if you get any sort of experience with a doctor that you're not comfortable with, or you're just kind of like, oh, that's not how I expected it, don't, like, fret to change doctors, because I'm so grateful that I found the one that I have now, because she's really helped in a lot of ways. So I kind of went into a blind a little bit, because I feel like I had rose-colored glasses, for the most part, in pregnancy. And so my labor with him was... like, my water broke at 10 in the morning, and I remember, oh, okay, like, my water broke, and I cleaned the house and took a shower and got my makeup on and just took my time, because I didn't really feel contractions yet, and I didn't have any risk to wait. And so we eventually went in that afternoon, and then things just kind of went with it. And so it really is like a, you just don't know until you go through it, kind of a thing. But in the ways that I prepared was a lot of reading, a lot of asking people their stories. And then, yeah, I wish I had a better doctor to ask more questions.

Sure. No, I have talked to a lot of moms who their practice was set up that same way of like, well, I did like this doctor, but I didn't like that doctor. And, you know, like it's understandable why, like you said, like my practices would use that model, but it does seem like it's kind of hard to build a strong, comfortable relationship with all of them. So I'm glad that you have that now with your OB. Yes. So I'm glad that you could sleep a full night's sleep before you went into labor. That's so thoughtful of Mr. Jett. And so sweet. I love that you were able to like do some last minute nesting right before he came, or right before the big old day of his coming. So why don't you just take us on that journey? How was labor for you?

1st Labor: Failed Epidural -- Didn't Feel Contractions, But Felt Everything While Pushing

Yeah. So now that I was thinking about it during my pregnancy, so I'm A-negative, my blood type's A-negative, and so I had to get the RhoGAM shot. I want to say like at, it's like at 24 weeks or so. And it's like, it kind of sucks. It's not the worst thing, but I always dread kind of getting it because it's a big shot. So that was like part of my pregnancy. But then, so yeah, my leading up to labor, my water broke. I remember we got noodles and company for lunch before I went in. And they got me in. And it's, gosh, it's been so long that his experience is a little blurry. But I just remember I was in labor with contractions for about, I'm going to say, like 10 hours. And pretty quickly, I got the epidural. Like, I was pretty headstrong on having an epidural, so they drugged me up with that. It was working for the contractions, so I didn't have any issues there. And then I started, I needed to get, I got to a point where I needed to start pushing. And so, and at this point, like, no issues. Like, it's been very smooth sailing, very positive experience. And I start pushing, and I ended up having to push for two hours. And I think, like, the epidural plays a role in that for sure. And this is my first baby, so my body's never has done this work before. So I remember just being exhausted pushing, because it was definitely about two hours worth of that.

And it was, there was a thunderstorm that came in, so all the nurses were excited, because they were saying it's going to be a busy night, because I guess, like, low pressure systems put women in labor, apparently. Interesting. Interesting. So all the nurses were like, we may be a little busy tonight, but we're going to have a lot of babies. And they would, like, in this hospital, he was born in Orem, Utah. In the hospital there, they would play, like, a song every time a baby was born, and we could just hear it, like, going off, like, every little, little, every once in a while. So they were all pumped about it. I remember pushing, and when he was coming out, it was thunder. Like, I could hear the thunder and see the lightning out my window. It was very dramatic. Like, he had an entrance. And it only fits his wild personality. But anyways, so it was tricky, though, because the epidural was working for my contractions in my stomach, but I could feel everything pelvic area. Like, it was miserable down there. Like, I was just in so much pain because it just didn't feel like the epidural was there. And the anesthesiologist even mentioned, like, oh, I'd like her height. Like, I don't know if I got, like, measurements up. Like, he said something about my height because I'm taller, just like you, us tall girls. But he said something that my height played a role. So it may have, like, worn off differently. I don't know. But that sucks. But he came, and he was our 7.13-er, and it was around midnight, just around 11 p.m. So it was, and we had our whole posse of people there, which I was all for, you know, at that time. I've done it differently now with my other two. But, you know, I have a lot of fondness of his labor and delivery because it was, like, like I said, pretty textbook. And, you know, it was hard and just like every other labor and delivery, but I'm very grateful he came safe and sound and just we're so proud. New parents with this baby boy.

So tender. Such a sweet thing for it to be just like this seemingly, like, empowering, like, positive experience. I mean, minus the epidural wearing off early. That sounds horrible. Can you factor in my Amazonian build into this, please? Well, how was how was the that immediate postpartum kind of going into those next couple of days for you with that?

1st Postpartum: Sweet Bonding Time + Supportive Community

I felt so much love because we had a lot of support from like my parents, our family members, we he was spoiled. Like we just he's the first grandbaby on our like my side of the family. And so there was just a lot of excitement there. And yeah, just it was new. Like it was just new. But I felt like I normalized it pretty well. And compared to my pregnancy with Archie, I with Archie after he came, I had a very hard bout of postpartum depression with Archie. And so looking at my experience with Cash and Jett, it was so much better than what it was with Archie. And so I have so much compassion for women who experience that on the the latter end with our fourth trimester, right? And so it was looking at it. I have a lot of, again, fondness, memories of just being first time mom. Like I soaked up the fact that I could lay on the couch and watch my Grey's Anatomy. It was the best. It's like you said earlier, my second, my third, I have toddlers or other kids running around. It's not as relaxing. So like that fourth trimester with Jett was just like heaven, honestly, because I just soaked him up and just like me and Colton were just so proud. So really, like 10 for 10, like I have no notes.

Yes. Oh my gosh. Well, shout out to Jett for being like such a great, you know, leader of the boys, right? Okay, we're going to set a good precedent so the rest of y'all can come because like... Right? Right. Like I feel like it would be so hard if your first was just super, super difficult. I mean, I know many women who are just so brave about that, but I like, I love, I love hearing positive experiences because I feel like a lot of times we're inundated with the extremes. And sometimes, like, you know, from what you're sharing, it seems like sometimes it really can just be like this thing that kind of flows from one thing to the next. And, you know, of course, like you said, like there'll be moments of anxiety of like, oh my gosh, wait, what is happening? You know, but then to feel like you're able to settle into those roles and everything is such a great, a great example for, you know, pursuant moms or maybe moms who had not so great experiences in the past that like it's possible to just kind of flow from one thing to another and, you know, like with minimal bumps. So I'm so glad that that was the case.

Yeah, me too. Me too.

2nd Pregnancy: Utilizing Clomid for Fertility + RhoGAM shot

Great. Well, if you would like to move on, I would love to know about Archie's beginnings and how that pregnancy went for you.

Absolutely. So with Archie, we it was about two years after we had Jett, we started to kind of put feelers out for when to start trying, because I was in grad school when Jett was about two. So I started grad school when he was a year old now. And then I was just kind of entering like internship and then doing all that jazz when he was about two to three. And so when I was coming up on finishing grad school, gosh, now I'm trying to remember anyways, timeline wise, here or there. But it was tricky though, because we tried for about a year for Archie. And so it's different experience with Jett. It was pretty immediate getting pregnant. With Archie, we tried for about a year. And then I got on Clomid. And I'm trying to remember exactly what Clomid does, but essentially it helps you plan on when your egg releases, so you can track ovulation more accurately. And that really helped. That's what helped us get pregnant. A lot of people have a hard time on that drug, apparently, because it can really alter your mood and your effect. And it can be really tricky in that sense. And I didn't have any of those strong symptoms, and it worked, but my understanding, too, is right. It's kind of, I think, the first go-to after natural methods don't work. And then, unfortunately, for some people, that also isn't a means. But it's just another tool, I think, they use to help women track ovulation. So that worked for us, thankfully.

And then pregnancy with Archie, I was very nauseous. I threw up a lot. I just remember feeling pretty miserable with his pregnancy. And then I'm trying to remember, again, I had to get my RhoGAM shot. With the RhoGAM shot, too, they give you another one if your baby also has, or if your baby has like a positive blood type. So if you have mixed blood types, you have to make sure you get the shot, because apparently it can attack mom and baby when, I don't know, it's something to do with our blood types. And so I had to get that with all three of my pregnancies because I'm a negative. And then I think it was only Archie that was, I think he is maybe O positive. Anyways, it doesn't matter, but he, the only thing with his pregnancy was, I remember it being harder to get pregnant with him. And then being super pumped, it was another boy. And I was very nauseous. So pregnancy with him was a little bit rougher. And I also feel like I don't remember much because I was in the throws of grad school as well. So that was a little crazy. Or I just graduated and doing my work, like early years of work or whatever, something like that. So my memory is shot with him. And then, yeah, even more so postpartum, I look back at that time, and I wish I could just hug myself at that time because it was just one of the hardest times of my life. I was so anxious. I definitely had postpartum depression and anxiety. And so he was more of a mental and physical struggle. But yeah, that one really opened me up to different challenges, for sure, that pregnancy.

Did you feel surprised, maybe even blindsided just from how smooth Jett's pregnancy and his whole experience was?

100%. It was night and day between the two. And I think I went in to it expecting, oh yeah, not really anticipating anything specifically, but I think I had that expectation of like, I'm pregnant again. Right, I was super excited we were pregnant because we had been trying for a year. And so that was exciting, but very quickly I realized, oh, I feel really miserable. This is rough. Like now I know, you know, what's a little bit of what women mean when they're dealing with the sickness, because there's some women too, that have even worse morning sickness and nausea. And like, I feel like I got a taste of that and it was, it was hard. It was really hard. No, I feel like I can only imagine, like not only did you just have this pregnancy going on, which is enough to fill all your time and energy and everything, but for you to be, you know, new in your career, have a four-year-old and all the other things that you're trying to do. I feel like that would be, that would throw me for a loop if that was kind of coming out of left field.

I think that's an important reminder, like for non-moms or even just like friends of moms like myself, that like just because a friend had a positive, smooth experience one time doesn't mean that necessarily this time that you can be like, oh, well, I know that she has easy pregnancies, or I know she has good postpartums, like to always continually check in and be there for your friends.

Yes. Such a good reminder. Yeah, I have to mirror that. Yeah, perfectly said. I agree.

Yeah, thank you. Well, I'm actually curious before we move on to your labor experience, just because I had never heard of the RhoGAM shot before, and we've been talking a little bit about it. But I'm just curious, like, for my own knowledge, some day going through, you know, pregnancy and everything, so is that something that, like, is part of normal screening? Is it something that, like, you had to know your blood type first and be like, hey, doc, like, this is my blood type. Should I get screened for that? Because I'm like, that is very important, like having a shot that helps you. And, you know, it helps you stay pregnant. Is that correct?

It does what it does. So I, if I remember correctly, I don't think it poses a big risk while you're pregnant. I think, and I could be wrong, I believe the risk is when you give birth, because fluids intermix at that point. Like, baby could come out with abrasions, or I'm bleeding, like, I had, like, I bled out with Cash with his delivery. And so, like, that's where the RhoGAM shot comes into play, right? And so, because he could swallow, like, there's just, that's my understanding. I could be wrong. But what they do is, I think, no matter what, when you get pregnant, they take your blood ever, like, early on. And so, you'll get blood drawn in your early weeks. And that's when they determine your blood type. And so, I believe it's anybody with a negative blood type that has to have it. And again, this is not medical. I am not a physician. I am going off of just my basic, you know, layperson experience. And so, my understanding is, the doctor will know your blood type early on. If that's the case, they already, in their treatment planning, will incorporate that shot for you around, like, 24 weeks. And then, yeah, they give it to you again. And if your baby has a different, if, like, the baby is a positive blood type, I believe, and again, this could be inaccurate, but I got, had to get the shot for Cash, and I think I had to get it for Jett or Archie. One of them, I didn't have to get it because they share a negative blood type with me. It may be Jett, actually, but yeah, they just, it could pose a risk, it could cause infection, it can attack, you know, your body's immune system. That's my understanding of it. And so I think it's just a preventative way to prevent anything catastrophic happening once the baby is born, is my understanding.

No, that makes sense. That makes sense. And I'll, like, I'll find a link to something, I'll put it in the show notes too, like this is the, like, this is the most accurate, right? But I mean, truly, I had never ever heard of that. I'm like, okay, I like skipped that chapter of the doula books or whatever. So like, that's so interesting. And I know our doctors have to, they're in touch with so much stuff. It's crazy.

Yeah. All the things I have to keep track of.

Absolutely. No, we're very grateful for. I'm grateful for people who have brains that can just keep track of stuff like that. I'm like, that is not my brain. And so I'm grateful that there's people with brains.

Amen to that. Love it. Love it.

2nd Labor: Induction + Another Failed Epidural

Well, thank you for that, like, explanation. And just, again, so fascinating. Just all the things that we know about our bodies. But it's crazy. Let's go into your delivery with Archie. How did you go into labor and how was that experience for you?

Yes. Well, my OBGYN, I adore her. She's amazing, great bedside manner. She just was very attuned and attentive to what I needed as a patient. I was measuring big, so Jett came at 39 weeks in one day and my water broke, so that's just how it happened. With Archie, I was measuring big, and she just threw out the idea. She said, do you want to get induced? That's an option. I'm open to that. And I was like, do I want to get induced? And at this point, I wanted another epidural because it was really tough with Jett and his delivery. And I thought, it kind of is nice to kind of think about planning on my day. Like, it'd be nice to just go into it, expecting this happening on this day. Like, sure. So we just scheduled a day, and we, he was 39 and one as well, I believe. And he was an eight pound nine, nine ounce baby. So he was my biggest. He was a big boy. I remember him coming out, he had, like, bear hands. And me and Colton just, like, I remember us looking at each other, like, this is a hunk, this is a chonker, like, he's a big boy. So, but it was very, pretty easy, like, in terms of the day, like, the schedule of it. Like, it was, it aligned great with that. I got the epidural pretty quick, getting into the hospital. I do remember that my waist down was completely numb. I couldn't move my legs, but I could feel every contraction. So the epidural again failed me. It's like, I had this experience with Jett in my pelvic area that was on fire, and then no contractions with Jett, but it was the opposite with Arch. Like, I couldn't even feel Archie come out. Like, I could not feel myself. The only reason why I knew I was pushing is because my stomach was literally contracting. I could see it, and it was painful. So I was bawling my eyes out with every contraction, and I knew I was close, but she came in. She's like, all right, let's have this baby. And she goes, oh, we're not doing good. And I just shook my head. I was like, no, I'm not doing good. So he came out, like, and it was fine.

2nd Postpartum: Anxiety, OCD Tendencies, & Breastfeeding Challenges

But his labor and delivery, again, pretty textbook, nothing noteworthy there, but it was my postpartum with him. That was really hard. I just remember, like, looking back at this time, we have a rocking chair in our baby room, and I feel like I lived in that chair. Like, it was just, like, constant. I breastfed him. I didn't breastfeed Jett. Jett got on formula pretty quick. I had a hard time with that, and I just, I wasn't going to fight that battle, so I did formula with Jett around two months. But with Archie, I wanted to breastfeed him, and I'm looking back now at how much that drained me. Like, I was so much mental work. It was really hard to get going. I found the groove with it around four months, but there was just a lot of... I have a lot of heartache looking at my postpartum with Archie because I don't remember a lot of it because I think my brain truthfully, like, shut it out. I had moments of psychosis where Colton, we had to get some help with that. I was seeing things in our room, and I was always seeing children in our room. I had a lot of hallucinating that was happening at that time. So I had to get some therapeutic help. We got a therapist, got on medication. And I had a lot of OCD tendencies where I was constantly checking locks at night. I'd get up in the middle of the night to go check locks. I'd go check to see if they were breathing, not just Archie but Jett. I just had a lot of fear around something bad happening all the time. I had a lot of intrusive thoughts about harming Archie. Obviously never acted on it, but my level of anxiety really became intrusive and just debilitating for me. And so I had to get medicated, which I'm all for, right? Therapy, medication, best combo, baby. I'm all about it. And it helped. It helped. But I just wish I did it sooner. And it's just crazy to me too how I have a knowledge of this therapeutically, like this is what I do for my job. And it even took me a long time to even recognize that, oh, I'm in trouble. Like I got to, I need help. I need to, because then I started having suicidal thoughts, which I, it was very surreal because I knew that they weren't accurate, but they were heavy, like they felt real at the same time. And so it was at that point, I was like, okay, I need, I need something more. And it helps. I'm glad I reached out for help. And I just urge women in the same situation, you know, there's no shame in that. I wish our system as a society had better access to resources, and that we had more of a village mentality when it came to raising babies. Yeah. But I got out of that funk eventually. I want to say around like the 8, 9, 10 mark got better, but it was pretty dark there for a little bit. And like I said, I just, I have so much compassion for moms who, who have to go through that because it's, it's really scary and really hard.

Thank you for talking openly about that. I, you know, I have struggled with anxiety just in my life and I've been on, I was on medication for it for like seven years. And so that's something that comes up a lot in my wondering about like, how will, like how will postpartum be for me and how will motherhood be for me? And I think I really appreciate just the like candidness with which you shared your experience, because I think sometimes like, thankfully, we're getting more aware that like mental health is something we really need to check in on. But sometimes like, it's a little bit further down the line. Like, like you said, like until we really catch it or until whatever, right? And so to even just have other people's like concrete examples, like this is how it was for me. This is how I actually felt. This is what actually was going on. I feel like it's super helpful in the conversation of like, okay, it's not just this like kind of haze, which it can be part of that experience. But like, these are some other tell-tale signs of like something else going on. So thank you for sharing that truly. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I'm also curious, just again, from a formerly anxiety-medicated girlie. So with your like breastfeeding experience, did you have to stop breastfeeding with that medication? Is it breastfeeding friendly?

Yes. Yep. Good question. It was breastfeeding friendly. I don't remember what it was. I think it, I'm not going to say, because I'm not going to say a medication and then it not be, because I've been, I think I've been on like two or three over the last like 10 years. And so I'm probably going to get confused, but they, the one that I was prescribed from, from my OBGYN was a lower dose, and she had no concerns with me taking it and how it would affect Archie. But I definitely think, right, like there are certain meds that you should not breastfeed while taking. And it was at the point where if I needed to stop breastfeeding to be able to take this medication, I would have. It was that serious. And so, but I'm grateful that I could have taken it and also still breastfeed him for the time that I did.

Yeah. No, that's, that's awesome. I'm, I guess not super surprised that they have that option, but also like with how many things that can like affect breastfeeding. I wasn't, you know, I was just curious. So that's, yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. And, you know, I, I'm sure like we mentioned before, like it was in stark contrast with your previous experience. And so, like, how do you feel like that kind of high contrast experience prepared you for Cash? Do you feel like it made you more hesitant or did it make you feel more empowered of like, okay, I felt the opposite ends of the spectrum so I can handle whatever baby three throws at me.

3rd Pregnancy: Itchiness with ICP (Intrahepatic Cholestasis of Pregnancy)

Right, right. I felt more empowered, right? Because I'm grateful that I got the help that I needed. And I'm grateful that I was able to resource that experience because I can look back now and see what was good, right? It's not just all bad, but it was a time where I was able to learn from it. And I think, too, it was kind of like my values. I've always wanted for sure at least three kids. And that was Colton as well. So it was almost like not a question that we would have another, even though it was difficult for me, it didn't sway me enough to not have more. And so, if anything, I feel like it was a learning experience. I had enough time, Archie, or Cash is two and a half, almost two and a half years younger than Archie. So I had some time to kind of get my feet grounded in my job, kind of get in the flow of having more than one kid. And so by the time we were ready to have Cash, I just jumped on Clomid. Like, I didn't even bother trying naturally because I didn't want to have to deal with what I did with Archie. And luckily, I'm very grateful that that worked again. And my experience with Cash was very, like, a lot of excitement because, right, it was like, okay, we're going to go from two to three. Like, this is going to be a big jump. You know, there's a lot of anticipation there, but in an excited way, for sure.

Well, I'm glad that, like, Clomid worked for you right away, or maybe not right away, but, like, that it was a good tool for you again, like you said. Do you feel like being pregnant with two little ones running around was more difficult, or do you feel like you were more prepared from your experience with Archie?

I oh— It was— It wasn't difficult in that regard for me, but I will say, with that, it was hard towards the middle of my pregnancy because that's when I got diagnosed with ICP, so intrahepatic cholestasis of pregnancy. So that diagnosis really affected just my overall well-being because of how miserable I felt. And so having— Because Jett and Archie, Jett was getting— He's at this point getting to an age where he's a little bit more independent. Like, it wasn't as demanding with, like, diaper changes or, like, you know, having to change him. Like, he wasn't demanding in that regard. And— But Archie, right, is, like, a toddler. He's two going on three. And so when Cash was born— So he— There was demand there. But I felt like it was very manageable, and I felt like I was in our routine during that pregnancy, but with Cash— But yeah, again, I had a little bit of nausea with Cash in my early stages of my pregnancy with him, but it wasn't like it was with Archie. And then around 22 weeks, I just would— it was probably closer to like maybe 21 weeks. It was just constant itchiness. I can't describe to you how unbearable my itch was. I describe it as like ants crawling under your skin. And it was everywhere, especially my neck. My neck got the brunt of it. My face got the brunt of it. My hands, the palms of my hands, and then just my forearms, just that. Those areas were just miserable. And I remember bringing it up to my doctor at a checkup as a joke, just joking, like, and I can't, this itch is driving me crazy because I was scratching. She's like, how long have you been scratching for? Like she noticed me scratching, and I was like, oh my gosh, right? Like crazy, huh? Pregnancy. And she goes, no, like, we're going to get your blood and we're going to run some tests because she's like, there's actually a condition that affects your liver with this that could be very high risk. And so we have tested, they test your bile acid. So, right, your bile is created in your body to help break down foods and your liver, right? It gets your waste out. And it's basically a build up of bile in your bloodstream or in other organs of your body that cause this itch. But it can be very dangerous and fatal to your baby in the later third trimester. And so we tested my bile acids and I was elevated. I wasn't anything crazy off the charts. They have a marker for it where if you're over 10, the number is 10, then you're automatically diagnosed with it. And so I was like 11.9 or something like that, like not far above. But she said, like, it's a very strict mark of like, if you're above 10, then you have this, and we got to take it serious. And so I got on, Urso was the nickname of it. I'm trying to remember, Ursodile or something like that. It's a specific medication. So I had to take that every day. It didn't really subside symptoms, but it helps kind of, I think it helps with like the production of the bile a little bit. And they have it to where if you have a certain level, then you have to be, if you're, if you're past like 30 weeks, it's like automatic delivery. If it's a lower level, then it's at 34, lower level, 36, lower level, 37. So I was at like the lowest, thankfully. And so Cash was delivered at 37 in five days because I have this condition. The rates for stillbirth are very high when you have this condition. And so there's a lot of anxiety towards the end of my third trimester of, you know, let's get him out. I took a steroid shot to help with his lungs if he was delivered even earlier than that. So we did a lot of prepping to make sure he came at a good time, that we didn't keep him cooking longer than he needed. Because unfortunately, a lot of women go without knowing this diagnosis, and then they find out, you know, through tests when they have their baby that they had elevated bylacid levels, and you know, it's kind of a quiet, a silent diagnosis sometimes, which is really unfortunate. So I'm glad that like my doctor saw that I was itching myself, because it wasn't like my stomach, because I got itch, you know, like I was itchy on my stomach for like stretching, like my body stretched, my skin stretched, right? So it itched in that regard on my stomach especially. But when it's like your hands or your face, and it's just this constant miserable itch, like that's to be concerned about, because that could be an indication of this condition. I'm so glad that she took that little off-comment seriously.

I mean, wow, I did not know that that was like... I've heard of itchiness in pregnancy, and Nate's mom even experienced that. She's like, “Emily, I hope to high heavens that you never experience that”. That seems like torture. I'm so sorry that that was something to go through, but I had no idea that there was implications for your baby, which makes sense. Your body doesn't usually just freak out for no reason. It's trying to tell you something. But I'm really glad that she took that seriously and that you were able to get that help that you needed. So with him coming at 37 weeks, you were induced, I'm assuming. What did you all do to induce? Did you have, like, pitocin? Did you do the foley balloon?

3rd Labor: Quick, One-Push Unmedicated Birth

Good question. We did pitocin. So I also had pitocin with Archie, but it didn't really affect me much because I had, like, it did a little bit with the epidural, but with Cash, I didn't want to be medicated because I had such poor epidural experiences, legit, and Archie, I was like... And Archie came. I think I pushed Archie for four minutes. So I was like, I was like, I bet you Cash will come quick. That was kind of my hunch, was like, Archie was fast. I wonder if Cash will be fast. And so I was like, I could probably, I can deal with four minutes. Like, that's kind of like my thought was like, I could do, you know? But anyways, we got the Pitocin, and I went in around, like, 830 in the morning, and then just did, I did my contractions. Colton did pressure points, like he would, like, press. I was on the yoga ball, and he would press in my hips to kind of help with, like…

Counter pressure?

Yes, thank you. And then I was sitting on the ball, and my water broke on the yoga ball, and so we just started tracking stuff. But it happened really quick, because I started at 8:30 in the morning, did my contractions, and then it just picked up fast. They always talk about, like, if you have to poop, they're close. And so I was like, I gotta go. It was like, it's not really intense. So I went to the bathroom, and the nurse came in. I'm like, just so you know, like, I just went to the bathroom. And she's like, oh, okay. How are you feeling? It's like, I'm feeling good. So I got in the bed, and then things started to pick up quick. Like, this is when I think I was transitioning. Like, I was super hot and sweaty. And then the panic started to set in. And I remember I was like, is it too late to ask for the epidural? And the nurse just, like, got in my face, and she's like, you're meant to do this. You can do this. You're having this baby. Like, she didn't even, like, she didn't even give me time to even flirt with the idea of getting an epidural, because I think she knew how close I was. And in the meantime, like, I could hear, they're getting the room, like, prepped. So I'm like, okay, he's coming. Like, he must be close, but I didn't feel... It was that close. And it got to a point where they asked me, they said, we have a whole team of students that really want to, like, they need to be able to watch A Birth Like Yours. Are you okay or open to them watching? And at this point, I was like, sure, whatever. I don't care. No joke, Emily. I probably had, like, it felt like four students in the room just, like, watching. And it was fine. I'm like, here we go, spread eagle. This is what this is what it's like. So anyways, it was literally the doctor came in, she got her gloves, she washed her hands, got her gloves on. And then she said, oh, he's here. Push. And I pushed him out one time. I just one push and he came out. So he was like, I think, sit in for a little bit until the doctor came, because it was like, I could not. They were telling me, you need to not push. And I was like, yeah, my body literally is like, I can't do that. Like my body, it just takes over.

So my experience with the epidural and then not, crazy. Like I loved it without the epidural, because it just felt like just our bodies just take over. It's just, it's amazing. But I will say, I would not do that for my first, because I don't know, just my, I truly believe my body just was already kind of knew the ropes of giving birth twice before that it like knew what to do. Whereas like first timers, like when they say natural, I'm like, oh my gosh, you are, you are Wonder Woman, because that is another level of determination, you know, working through your contractions and then pushing, right? So I was grateful that it was quick. He was born at like 1:30 or something like that. So 8:30, like it was just hours. Yeah. Yeah. He was fast. But me and Colton, I remember we're both bawling because we were so grateful that he was crying and that he came and was okay. Because there was anxiety there about just my diagnosis or just like my condition and we just wanted him here safe. And so there was that. But then I wouldn't stop bleeding. So I was bleeding a lot. And then it got to a point where I like was having a hard time. Like I could tell I was getting really lightheaded. So she told me she's like, I think I need to manually extract part of your placenta because I think some of it got stuck. So she had to go in manually and take it out. So that hurt because again, I'm not on medication. And so I could feel and she was, she really made sure that it was all out. Oh my gosh. But you can check the placenta for calcification. And there was some calcification from just a little bit on my placenta from this diagnosis because that's like a symptom that you can check is how much is your placenta calcifying. I don't know how they figured that out, but that's another symptom that they could track. So, but yeah, they just, she was able to help me with that, got me stitched up, got me on some drugs, and that was his story. But again, so relieved that like he was okay. And because there was there was some anxiety there at the end, for sure.

Yeah, no, I could imagine like the just sigh of relief of like, okay, like this huge unknown, right? Like, you don't, right? Like, you just don't know, like, what this is going to mean. And so I'm so glad that that was able like that. That wasn't just like, oh, we barely made it by right. But that you were able to have like a natural birth on top of that is just insane and amazing. And wow, that is I could imagine, like seeing or hearing at least that there is calcification on your placenta, too. I feel like that that would send a shiver down my spine a little bit of like, yeah, okay, like this, yeah, like we're grateful for the information we have now, because that could have just a couple more weeks could have been not a good situation. And so I'm so grateful.

Yeah, yeah. It's just not one to mess with. And it's just not worth it. And she's like, now, like she's like, your placenta looks fine. She's like, it's not like anything crazy. She's like, but look here, like you can tell where it was starting to go. And that's what we look for with with this condition. And I did non-stress tests. So every week, I want to say twice a week, for the last month, I went in to do non-stress tests where they hook you up to like a monitor where they track his movements. He has to, he had to move a certain amount in a certain amount of time. I only failed one. And so again, like that's a little kind of what's where I'm looking for. It's just very unsettling, right? And then, you know, at a wait an hour, and then it like, you know, you're just kind of okay, like, are you going to move? Are you going to move? And so I'm glad they, she did everything I think she should have to make sure that we were on top of what we could control. But yeah, I think if there is anyone who's listening that does end up having this diagnosis, like, I think it's really important to have a doctor who's knowledgeable on this diagnosis, because there's a lot of physicians who are not as aware. Luckily, all the doctors, there was other times like she'd be out of town and I have to go do a non-stress test and like a doctor would come in to just help with that. And luckily, all of them were like on board with her treatment plan. But I've heard just stories of doctors that will just totally invalidate it. And so I just think again, advocate for yourself. Hopefully, people listening won't be afraid to do that, because it's just you want to be able to look back on these experiences and know, like, okay, I did what I could. And I wish I had more of that with Jett my first time around. Yeah. And it just, I mean, it makes sense, like, right, with Jett. Like, you're everything's new, and everything is like entering into your field of vision for the first time. It's like, how could you, you know, like, how could you really know how to respond to those, like, unforeseen challenges, right? But I'm glad that the other two experiences felt more, um, like, redemptive and more empowering and engaged and all that good stuff.

3rd Postpartum: The Power of Preventative Meds + Uplifting Community

Yes, for sure. So did you notice a difference between like that postpartum, like, especially the immediate postpartum with your natural labor versus your epidural labors?

Yes, it was very stark, I will say. I was up and walking, like, almost, I wouldn't say immediately, but it was very quick that I was out of bed and feeling great. Like, physically, it was just night and day with how my recovery was. I was so drugged out with epidural, like, it doesn't just, like, affect your ability to push either. Like, you can hardly feel when to push with epidural. I had to be coached. When I was coming out of it, like, after that, it's like, I'm so groggy was not the case at all with Cash. Like, I felt so alert and, like, just kind of riding this high with him and just, like, the sweet moments together. Like, it kind of, like, it was exhausting, but I felt alert, if that makes sense. And to me, that's the biggest difference, was, like, my brain fog wasn't there with Cash because I didn't have... I had, like, painkillers in me for the bleeding that I had, but it was different. Like, it wasn't like it was with Epidural. But, yeah, I would say, if I do it again, I would shoot for natural again because of just, not just the empowerment, but also the recovery was much, much better.

Yeah, I have had a couple friends who have had both experiences, and they say, like, kind of contrary to what you might think, like that natural experience, like the, like, immediate postpartum is very different. And so I was curious, like, especially with your kind of half epidurals, like, since they were so weird for you. So, well, it's interesting that that's still the case. And I'm glad, I'm glad that, like, you could just kind of snap back into your body afterwards, at least, you know, more so than the other experiences.

For sure. Yeah.

How was, like, postpartum after that, how was bringing home Cash in those days, weeks, months after that?

I did not have anything as serious as it was with Archie. I was able to be more aware, I think, of that. And I'm pretty sure I just got on a medicine as soon as I could, or I already was taking one. I don't remember, but I, it was like a, I'm not even going to try to not do this. Like, I'm just going to do it anyway. Just, you know, I'm an, I'm a believer in that for myself with medicine. But it was hard in the sense that I had three kids, three boys. It was hard in that regard. But, you know, it's such a, it's such a amazing, I can't even describe how much I love the chaoticness and like the, how fun All Boys is at this point. Cause Cash will be two in November, and it's just the best. I'm obsessed with it. But it was a shock to my system. Being aware of a, Jett was, how old was he at the time? He had, when he was six, I think, a six year old, oh my gosh, now Archie's three. I am getting the ages. But, you know, these are busy boy ages. A lot of physicalness happening where they want to jump on me while I'm also breastfeeding this baby. So I was more drained physically after Cash in terms of like my energy and how my body just took a beating having three boys, like they just on the gym. So like, that's what sticks out to me with my postpartum with Cash was like, I just right from the get go was just like, you know, it's just rough house central at my house. And then like, I will literally would have to like walk around holding Cash on my boob feeding him and like picking up things. Like it just, it was another level of like multitasking. And so it's rough because you're so tired, but it wasn't what I've had with Archie where I was like thinking about like my life and like, you know, taking it and like, you know, it wasn't serious in that regard. It was just draining. I don't know if that makes sense, but it was a different challenge.

No, it does. Yeah, no, that totally makes sense. And I feel like, you know, the mental drain is like a completely different beast than like physical drain. And so I'm glad, I'm so glad that you were able to be like proactive in that and like getting on that helpful medication. And I'm with you. I'm like, medication, the way it was explained to me is like, it's like having good hiking boots and good water and walking sticks to like hike up the mountain, you know? You still have to do it, but the medicine's gonna like give you the tools that your body just can't provide for you right now for whatever reason.

Yes, love that.

Yeah, I feel like I appreciate like your reflections on the impact that had on your postpartum experiences. Cause I mean, even just going on medication, not for like postpartum anxiety, but just for general anxiety, took me a while to like feel like, well, am I gonna feel like myself? Am I gonna feel like this weird hollowness? And so, you know, I'm sure that people may have or people may experience like these mental health things for the first time when they have kids, because it's like the biggest transition ever.

Yes, it is.

And so I'm grateful just like talking to like a big sister about it, because it's something that is on my mind a lot. And I'm sure is on the minds of a lot of people. And so I'm glad that, you know, you can see how that positively impacted both pregnancies, even though, you know, with Archie, or I'm sorry, both postpartums, even though with Archie, like it came a little bit later, but it still like did the job you needed it to do. So I'm glad. Yes, me too. And so grateful that that's something we have access to, you know, like our bodies go through. It is a trauma, especially physically, but also the adjustments we have to have hormonally. And that's why, again, too, not just the mediation aspect, but the therapy aspect of being able to have that awareness and have the skills to, you know, have the mindfulness and to challenge when I needed. And so I just, again, I wish I did it sooner with Archie, but that's why it's also important to have that support, a good support system where I'm grateful Colton was able to also track how I was doing and kind of recognize, okay, you know, let's get this appointment scheduled. Or even my mom, like, there were times where she, I wouldn't even have to really say much to her, and she'd be like, how are you doing with this? Like she just, that woman has this like weird sixth sense of how I'm doing. And so it's like she was able to really push me to go see a doctor, like get in, and so, again, like the support is also so key as well, making sure we've got people that are in our arena who really do look out and go out of their way to offer, hey, you know, let me watch your kids for a little bit so you can go to this appointment. Like I have neighbors who, like her and I, two of my neighbors actually had boys, we all had boys within three months of each other, and we would watch each other's kids while the other would go to their appointment. And like it just, to me, like that was huge for Cash because like I felt like I had a good support system with like my friends and then like my mom and my sister. And so I was really grateful for that. And so my heart goes out because I also know what it's like to not feel like you have that support as well. And so, and in other ways. And so my heart goes out to women who don't feel like they have that, but again, there are resources. I just wish like sometimes we're in our head a lot, or we're so consumed that it's hard for us to recognize it. So that's why we need others as well to be in our court.

Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember who, it was someone I interviewed for the podcast before, and they were saying like, you know, for moms, like you don't have time all the time to like check in with yourself. Sometimes you just have to go. Like actually most of the times you just have to go. And so to have people, like you're saying, like in your arena, outside of yourself, that can keep tabs and keep an eye on you for you when you're in the midst of like, you know, keeping this little human alive or humans alive is such an invaluable thing and such a great reminder to all of us to just like really, really be mindful and, you know, create moments of like genuine check in and like genuine connection with the women in our lives.

Even the women who seem that they have it together, you know, everybody, those you're close with, it's always worth it. It does not hurt to really check in and see how they're doing. Yeah.

Amen. Well, I feel like we've already shared so many great insights and I'm just, it's been such a sweet thing to really just feel like, I feel like I'm like sitting right across from you. I mean, you know, we're remote, but it just feels so sweet to like talk and just get your like just very like grounded perspective of it, where it's not like sugar coated, but it's also not like doom and gloom. It's like, yes, this is this and this is that. And that's like to for me, like that those are like stories and like perspectives that I really appreciate. Because I'm like, you know, I can get really like worked up one way or another. And so I like appreciate just kind of more of like the full range of the experience that you've shared with us today.

Yes. And I relate another from an anxious girlie to another anxious girlie. I hear you on that.

You get it. Yes. It's like emotions are beautiful things, but sometimes they are our little terrors as well.

Amen.

To My Pre-Mom Self…

Well, I always do love to ask at the very end, if you could go back at any point in time and tell yourself one thing, what would you tell your pre-mom self?

I would tell her it's not that big of a deal. And what I mean by that is I get so hung up on minuscule things that deter me from what's really happening in the moment. Like, I want to remind, and I'm reminding myself that now, that it's not as big of a deal as you think it is. And to just be in the moment, really just be present. And, you know, I think it's powerful to challenge certain expectations that aren't accurate or helpful, and to just be present, and to just enjoy this time that you will get with your crazy, insane, fun, loving boys. That's what I would tell her.

I love that! I love that so much, especially, you know, going back to our anxious, girly selves. Like, truly just the freeing truth that, like, it really is not that serious, you know? Like, it's gonna be okay. And to hear that in regards to motherhood is, like, honestly very refreshing, because, like, it is a big deal. Like, it is important, but also to, like, not get so overwhelmed. Like, in the meantime, that, like, missing the point. It's like, the whole point isn't just to be stressed, the whole time. Like, there's so much more beyond that. So I love that. I love that so much.

Thank you so much for having me. This was such a treat. I just love talking with you.

You're telling me! This was such a cup filler for sure. I am so grateful for you and just so grateful for the insights and the reflections and all of the things. I mean, truly, just like also raising awareness of the RhoGAM experience and the ICP and postpartum experiences, I feel like we've learned so much today. And I know there's so many people that feel so much more empowered and informed because of what you shared. So thank you so much.

Thank you. I'm so honored. I'm so grateful. I love it. Thank you so much, Emily.

Of course.

All right, y'all, isn't she just so easy to listen to? I loved this episode and I seriously loved her pre-mom self-advice, that most things are really not that big of a deal, which is so refreshing, such a refreshing take on motherhood. I swear the only thing I see on Instagram reels these days, are like these super shame-baity things that are like, “I didn't know I was neglecting my kids until I realized this, dot, dot, dot. And then they make you read like 40 paragraphs of a caption, all to find out that she learned that one of her kids liked their sandwich cut on the diagonal and the other liked to cut right down the middle”. Oh, it's like, please just give us a break. Women do not need another thing added to their mental load. I will say it louder for the people in the back. Stop adding things to women's mental load. All right, rant over. But it makes me love Lauren's counter perspective so much more that truly, the most important thing is that you love your kids and that you stay as present as possible and everything else just simply is not as important. It's such a freeing thought in these keeping up with the Joneses days that we find ourselves in. And again, as an anxious girly, I felt like she did such a great job of balancing all these raw realities with that freeing perspective of letting go of what's not important. So I'm so grateful that she was on the podcast this week.

And as always, I am so grateful to you for listening. Thank you for subscribing, rating, reviewing. I know I bring those up a lot, but podcasting can be kind of a funny thing where you are hearing from me every week, but I don't necessarily hear that much back. And don't get me wrong, it's the nature of the format. Like I know what I signed up for, but I didn't realize how much reviews and comments and things like that would mean to me. So thank you to those of you who have already done that, who engage in different ways. It really, really, really means so much, and it helps the podcast keep going. I think I mentioned this last week or a week ago, but I added a highlight to my Instagram where reviews for the podcast or like texts or even comments can be full time and where they can just be celebrated by all of us. So I can't wait to keep adding more as we continue building our relationship and as this wonderful community continues to grow, and that's only made possible by you. So truly, thank you so much. And I think that might be all we got this week. So, friend, same time next week?

K, love you, bye!