2-Push Deliveries + Pubic Symphysis Dysfunction | Jessica’s Birth Stories

Meet Jessica

His boss was so funny because when he told him, hey, my wife's water just broke, I'm not gonna be able to make it in. He was like, what are you doing calling me? Get her to the hospital.

Yes, yes!

Hey y'all, welcome to The Labor Line, a mom-to-be's authentic look into the birth experiences of her mom friends. I'm your host, Emily, and today I'm gonna start with a confession, okay? I, Emily Lau, cried over muffins last night. Yes, that's something I get to check off of my pregnancy bingo card, I guess. I cried over food. And last week, I mentioned how I've crossed this threshold of crying that I can't go back from. And I think I've just gotten further into the belly of the beast. Let me tell you how it went down. So yesterday, I didn't feel great. It wasn't, like, overwhelmingly one thing that was making me feel off. My legs were, like, kind of restless. I felt bloated. My hips were hurting. Just, you know, just lots of little things kind of adding up just to kind of, like, put a damper on my mood. And so we were just watching a show. I was, like, having a hard time even enjoying just hanging out on the couch. I just, like, couldn't find a comfortable position. And so eventually, there must have been something in the show. At some point, muffins just came to mind, and, oh, my gosh, they sounded like the best thing in the world. And I've been making these amazing sweet potato banana bread muffins. Oh, my gosh. Someone posted the recipe on Instagram that I follow, and I have probably made them, like, three or four times since then. They're so good. They're so simple. They, like, have lots of goodies in them without, like, instead of sugar, it's honey and, like, you use coconut oil and all that good stuff. So I, like, feel good about eating them versus some of the other things I could be eating. But the sweet potatoes take, like, 45 minutes to roast on their own. And then the muffins take, like, 20 minutes, blah, blah, blah. I was like, I don't want to spend over an hour working and cooking and baking until I can, like, eat a muffin. I just wish I could go to the store and get a muffin, but that was not an option. And so I just tried to distract myself. I'm like, hey, whatever, it's fine. It's no big deal. You're not even that hungry. It's fine. Well, like, 20 minutes later, still thinking about it, commercial break came on, and I was like, okay, whatever. I'll just go into the pantry and see if something else sounds good and distract myself from how much I want muffins. So I get up without saying anything to Nate. I get up, I open the pantry, and my eyes immediately fall on this teeny little jiffy box of blueberry muffin mix that I totally forgot we had. And in that moment, so many emotions came over me. I was so grateful that we had them. I also realized that I was so lazy, I didn't even want to make them, even though they're like the easiest possible mix ever. And I just felt like this overwhelming sense of like, it's okay, like you can ask for help if you need. And I've been trying harder to ask for help and accept help. And Nate is the sweetest boy in the whole world. And so he's the best safe space to practice with. And so I was like, I'm gonna ask Nate to make me these muffins. Anyways, literally all of these feelings flashed in my mind in a matter of like two nanoseconds. So I had gasped. I was like, and Nate's like, what? And I pulled out this muffin mix, and I turned to him. My eyes just filled with tears. And I just start crying. I'm like, will you make me these muffins? And oh my gosh, he was so sweet. I was so grateful I could ask him. He was so sweet. He got up, he's like, oh, you sweet girl. Of course, of course. I'd love to make you muffins. And he was hugging me. And I started crying harder because he was the sweetest boy in the world. And also, I don't know. Like once they start, I just can't stop. But then I was laughing while crying too, because I was just like, this is such a moment. Like this is such a moment of, wow, if we didn't already know you're pregnant, this confirms it. Like, and I just, I think about it from Nate's perspective. We're just watching a show. We're like two episodes in. His wife gets up, hobbles over to the pantry, opens it, gasps, turns to him, and starts bawling her eyes out for no apparent reason. Just, oh, he's such a good man. He's so sweet to deal with me. But yeah, he made me the muffins. I had to go somewhere else while he was making them because I kept looking over and crying because he's the sweetest. And they were amazing. They were so what I wanted. We ate them straight out of the pan. And yeah, so that's my life update. I just, if you have cried over food recently as well, just know you're not alone and it's okay. And yeah, so that's the biggest thing that happened to me this past week.

But moving on from that, I am so excited to have my friend Jessica on the podcast today. Jessica and I became friends during my time in Colorado. We both actually ended up working with the teenagers at church. And let me tell you, nothing will bring you closer than some of the things you have to do when working with teenagers at church. In particular, Girls Camp. And for those not familiar, Girls Camp is an annual camp held for girls from like age 12 to 18. And it's completely run by volunteers like myself and Jessica. And it's a total blast. I loved going when I was a teenager, but I have to say if any of my former church leaders are listening, y'all are saints because I know I was psycho. But being an adult at the camp and having to be the responsible ones rather than the psycho ones is a whole other ballgame. Jessica and I were both in our early 20s, and it was just us with eight teenagers at a campsite in the woods. And during the daytime, they'd let go and be with other girls their age, and there'd be other people in charge. But at night, we were in charge. And I grew up in Texas, and when we had our girls camp, quote unquote, it wasn't really camping because you can't super camp in the middle of Texas in July because you would just melt and die of heat exhaustion. So we had tents and whatever. And like the worst thing that could happen to you while camping in Texas was like snakes, which I don't even think our camp had a problem with snakes. But Colorado camping is the real deal that I'm very new to. And all of a sudden I was like in the middle of the woods in charge of all these kids that were like objectively more experienced at camping than I was. But the biggest thing was that we had to make sure that they weren't sneaking food or like even putting on like super smelly perfumes or lotions at the campsite because in Colorado, the worst thing out there are bears. And these girls just did not get it. Like they did not understand that, hey, guess what, they're like for real bears. And we're not telling you can't have food because we're trying to be strict. Like there are bears. And there was literally one night where there was a trail of fruit snack wrappers leading from one of the tents into another. So, Jessica and I had to plead with these girls. We said, listen, if we get bears in our campsite because of you, Jessica and I will have to be the ones to fight them off, not you. And if I have to fight a bear because of these fruit snacks that you snuck in, I will never forgive you, okay? I have no idea what to do with that. I like, again, I've maybe lived in mountainous places for like less than half my life. And even then, I've camped like less than 10 times. So it was, I mean, Jessica was more prepared than I was, but she was still on the same boat of like, yeah, no, I kind of know what to do more than you. And I know bears are bears are bears. We're not messing with it. So I think that got through to them, or they just got better at hiding their food. 

But either way, my friendship with Jessica was forged in that fire, and we became closer than ever before, which maybe is the whole point of sticking us out there with a bunch of kids, but yeah, she's a real one. So it was just super fun to get to talk to Jessica again. I haven't, you know, really talked to her since moving, so it was so fun to catch up and hear about her experience becoming a mom to her two super sweet kids. Today, she shares about her experience with first trimester nausea, particularly in the car, which I don't know if there's many worse places to get sick consistently than the car as an adult, but she talks about that. She pushed out both of her babies in two pushes, which is amazing. She also talks about round ligament pain and pubic symphysis dysfunction, which was especially difficult because she is an amazing dancer. She taught dance while being pregnant, and so she talks about having to deal with that, which sounds so difficult. She also talks about her experience with a Velcro baby who wouldn't sleep without her, breastfeeding both of her kids at the same time and dealing with anxious, intrusive thoughts. I am so grateful for all that she has to say today. I think her episode is just absolutely fabulous. So without further ado, let's jump right in. Welcome to the podcast, Jessica. Thanks so much for being here today. Tell us a bit about yourself and what you and your cute family have been up to.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited. It's been crazy around here, just lots of working around doing stuff for church. And my daughter actually just started preschool a couple of weeks ago, so she's been loving that. It's been a little bit of an adjustment for the rest of us, but otherwise, it's been good.

So fun. We were talking a little bit before this, and your cute Evelyn has just been like, always such a cute little outgoing girl, and that is continuing into her new school career with her little preschool. I feel like it would be so hard if your first hated school and you're like, okay, but please, please just like going. And so I'm glad that your introduction to school with your kids has been a positive one so far, because I think it would be really, really hard if they hated it.

I think it would have been so hard. But she, yeah, she waltzed right in on the first day, and just like didn't even wait for me to come in with her, to do all of her sign in and all of that. She was just walking right in, ready to wash her hands and ready to make new friends. So just kind of on par with her personalities since she was born.

So cute. So darling. And how has your how has little brother taken to her being gotten? Is he like, finally, I can have mom to myself? Or is he like, wait, what do I do all day without her?

He's actually been pretty sad. Like when we go to drop her off, we get home and he's like, I miss my sister. He goes down for a nap during his nap time. But he doesn't have to go without her while he's awake for too long. But anytime they're apart, he's like stitched to her side pretty much.

No, so sweet. They are such sweet siblings. So I'm I'm glad that he's not conscious of her absence very much. And that's nice for you, too. It's like one to one or two birds, one stone type thing of like, oh, hey, both of my kiddos are occupied. So nice. I love it. Well, I'm so excited to hear your stories today. I was also saying before this, like, it's extra fun when I've been around the kiddos whose birth experiences we're talking about, because I really do feel like their personality is like with them from the beginning. And so it's really sweet to get to know them better and, of course, to know more about your introduction into motherhood. So if you're ready to go, I'd love to start with your experience becoming pregnant for the first time.

1st Pregnancy: Car Sickness & Hip Pain

Yeah. So Luke and I met while I was still in high school. He was not. We have a little bit of an age gap. And so when we got married, I was not quite 19 yet. My birthday was in like a couple of months. And just being so young going into marriage, I was kind of a little underprepared. I didn't really make the time to schedule a pre-marriage appointment or whatever they call it. And so we had just kind of planned to use barrier protection at first. And actually, like while we were on our honeymoon, we talked about it and we were like, I feel like we're just kind of ready whenever God sends us a baby. And so that's what our idea was. We weren't necessarily trying, but we also weren't preventing. And so about a month after we got married, side note, we also got married about a month before the COVID shutdown. So that was a crazy time for all of us, right?

Yes, they extended honeymoon, I guess.

Yeah, Luke still had to go to work.

Oh, no. So he didn't get the fun part.

He was an essential work.

We're grateful for them. And we also wish that y'all could have just hung out at home 24-7.

Right. But yeah, so about a month after we got married, my period ended up being late. And so I was thinking, is this happening already?

Yeah.

So I went and got a pregnancy test. And it ended up coming out negative. But I remember after taking that test, I actually felt like sad that it was negative, which caught me off guard because I didn't really feel ready to be a mom yet. But that kind of hinted to me like, okay, maybe I am ready for this. If I'm feeling sad that there's not a baby in there yet. I don't know, I'm getting emotional about this already.

No, it's so sweet. It is emotional. It is.

Yeah. And so I remember feeling sad about that. And that's the point where I knew like, okay, maybe I am ready for this. And still we weren't trying. But the next month came along, and my period was late again. And I remember saying, okay, well, I'm not going to take a test yet because last time it was, my period came like two whole weeks late. And so I'm just going to wait for those two weeks to pass, and if it still hasn't come, then I'm going to take a test. And so those two weeks passed, and I still had an extra test from the last time. So one morning, Luke went to work, and I took a test all by myself in our bathroom, and it was possible.

Oh my gosh.

So we had been married for two months, and it was, I think it was the week after Mother's Day, and I had given my mom a painting, and when I gave it to her, we both just started bawling on Mother's Day, and I was trying to figure out why. I was so emotional. And so when I took the test the next week, it all kind of fit together like, oh, that's why my emotions are so high. And so, yeah, I took the test, and I remember just being in shock, but also so excited. And for some reason, I just felt like that day I needed to go lay in bed and watch Peter Pan. So that's what I did.

That's so cute. Yes.

And from the beginning, I was just so interested in the physiological process because I've always been kind of a science nerd. And similar to how you've talked about, you've always loved babies and all of that, and the process of labor. I've always been interested. I don't think I went into as much detail as you did growing up, but I always knew I wanted to be a mom, and always have been interested in that. And so I spent a lot of my time watching videos on YouTube about the process of how it works, and the baby developing, and I watched people vlogging about their pregnancies and their labor, and that's how I spent a lot of my COVID at home alone time.

Totally, yes. Once the algorithm picks up that you're interested, it's like, oh, well, do I have something for you...

Here's this one!

Yes, there is an endless amount. And so I'm totally, especially recently, I'm very happy for the algorithm to take that one and run with it. And so especially during COVID, I feel like when everyone was on their phones more, I feel like algorithms were just clocking you like that. And so, okay, I'm going to go down this wormhole. I'm not even going to be mad.

Yeah, so that night, I had been working on this painting, and I actually gifted it to Luke that night, along with showing him the pregnancy test. And that's how I told him that I was pregnant. And I have this video of him seeing the pregnancy test and figuring out that we were going to have a baby. And he just looked up at me and said, we're going to have a baby, really? And he was so happy. Still makes me want to cry.

He's so tender, so tender. And he's such a sweet dad. And he's such a tender person. And so I can just picture his face just like...

And I will say, this man does not cry. But the one thing that I've seen him cry about is our babies. No, that just shows you where they lie in his heart.

Yeah, yeah.

But then after that, as far as symptoms and all that go, I remember with Evelyn, I just... I started getting really sick, and I figured, you know, this is normal. And so I just kind of lived with it. And I don't think I was necessarily more sick than the average person. But I have a few distinct memories of getting sick. Well, for some reason, it was always while we were in the car.

No, jeez.

So it was the worst. There were a couple of times, like, we drove out to Utah to see my grandparents with my mom. And while we were out there, there were a couple of times we had to pull over so I could throw up out the window or something. It was not fun. There was once or twice I was driving on my own, so I had to find somewhere to pull over.

Oh my gosh.

Eventually, we had just left an appointment, and I was on the phone with my mom, and we were stopped at a stoplight, and all of a sudden, I just started saying to it, you need to pull over, like, now. Pull over. And we couldn't at first, and so we pulled over, and I did my business, and after that, my mom brought over a couple of gowns at Fog Bags with more baggies inside and a mouthwash. Like, you need to be prepared in case that happens again. And funny thing is, I think that was the last time I ever got sick in the car, so I didn't even get in.

Oh, jeez. Isn't that always how it goes? I was using, like, these... I've been using these little, like, pregnancy, like, lollipop things, and I kept just getting one container of them at Walmart. I, like, hardly go to Walmart, but I just go for that. And I was like, oh, I'm almost feeling good. I'm just gonna get one container. And then I kept, like, having to go back to get them because I kept feeling sick. So I'm like, you know what? Fine. I'm gonna buy three. And the minute I was over-prepared, my body's like, oh, well, funny thing, actually, is that we're fine. So I'm like, how great. So it's maybe...

And we see you're prepared now.

Yeah. I'm like, is it completely placebo? Like, will I be able to trick my brain next time of, like, I'm going to buy the big pack and then not need it? Or is it just the fact that, like, I'm not thinking about it, that it works that way? I am glad that that seemed to help you not feel sick anymore. Oh, my gosh, the car is a horrible place to get sick, especially as an adult. You know, I feel like as kids, like, I don't know. But that would be so hard.

It was awful. Yeah, the other thing that sucked with the sickness is I had a work from home job where I was on the phone constantly taking orders for people. And it was like this job that I couldn't even pause to go to the bathroom or I would get in trouble. What? So there were a couple of times where I had to pause and go throw up, and I got in troubles for it. So I didn't last in that job for very long.

What on earth? That's ridiculous. It's like...

It's not fun.

You're a human being. Like you can't... That makes me mad. That makes me mad.

But once the first trimester passed and I was able to... I remember getting the dating skin. I was so excited to see my little baby girl, even if it was just like the little nubs and all of that. It was so exciting. But after the first trimester passed, the sickness kind of went along with it. And so, I was feeling a lot better except for that. I started getting a lot of hip pain, and I've been a dancer all my life. And so, I'm used to having like sore muscles and hip pain and stuff like that. But this was kind of like on a different level. I came to find out that this was just like part of the natural process, even though I wasn't like really showing yet or anything like that, it was my body preparing to hold that big baby. So all the ligaments and all that in my hips were just stretching out. And I remember walking and just all of a sudden, I would get this huge twinge in either in the front or the back of my pelvis or on my tailbone. And it got to the point sometimes where I couldn't even walk, and it was awful.

Oh my gosh, that's so hard. I've experienced just a teeny bit of that. That's been, it's hard. You're like, okay, am I not supposed to be active? And I would imagine, if I were to have guessed, dancing would have helped your body be more flexible or whatever. And so I'm sure that that felt like it was coming out of left field too. I'm like, okay, what do you mean my body is trying to be more flexible? I've been training my whole life for this.

Exactly. So it kind of caught me off guard, and it made it really hard for me to stay active during that pregnancy at first. It felt a lot of the time like all I could do was yoga, aside from the fact that it was COVID and I couldn't like go out to a gym to work out or something like that. So I did that from time to time, but through most of the pregnancy, I was pretty bad about staying active. And looking back, just because of the way I was pardoned with her and then with my son worked out, I really wish that I had been more active with her. But yeah, I mean, the rest of my pregnancy with her went pretty normally. Nothing out of the blue. She was a healthy baby. I remember the first time I felt her kick. I was sitting watching one of those post-part- or those pregnancy vlogs, and I felt- it felt like someone was flicking my belly from the inside. It was so exciting. I mean, otherwise, the pregnancy was pretty good.

Yeah. I'm glad. I'm not- especially like for your first experience, and kind of feeling ready before you thought you'd feel ready, kind of like, am I ready for this? I'm glad that it was a nice pregnancy overall. I mean, first trimester, ugh. Like, so underrated as to how bad it is. Like, we need to be more vocal. I'm like, this is rough, but I'm glad the rest of it went well. So what was your game plan going into labor and delivery, other than just get a cute baby here, which is a great plan? Yeah, right.

Um, I honestly probably went into a little underprepared. I had a goal of wanting to be able to go as long as I could without the epidural. But other than that, I didn't really have a plan. And I had heard that, you know, you should go in with a birth plan, but I had also heard, well, maybe don't be too set on that birth plan because things are going to go out of how you planned it. And so I didn't really plan a whole lot, but I do remember there was this one day, I was out in Florida with my mom, and we were on like a little family trip. And there was this one night, it was a couple months before I was ready, and I just started breaking down to my mom, like, I'm about to be a mom, and I don't know if I'm ready for this. Like, I'm not even 20 yet. And so that was difficult, but she was really good about just reassuring me, like, you know, everyone just kind of learns along the way. You don't have to know everything from the beginning. And so I just kind of took that and tried to have faith that the Lord would prepare me for labor and for delivering the baby and being a mom, even though I had been around babies my whole life, it just, I knew it was gonna be different. So I was nervous, but I was faithful.

Yeah. No, I think, like, to your point of, like, the plan, right? Like, I think it's always such a weird, hard-balancing act of, like, okay, so, like, I know I need to do something, but I also have no idea what this is, how I'm gonna handle this, what this actually feels like. And I feel like almost every, if not literally every single person I've talked to, they're like, yeah, my first, I was underprepared. I'm like, probably. I don't know if you can, like, feel overprepared or perfectly prepared for your first. And I don't, like, I truly don't know because I haven't experienced any of it. And so I feel like for you to, like, have that mentality going into it of, like, it's gonna be crazy, but it's also gonna be great. It's gonna be what it's gonna be. Like, it's probably healthy than trying to overplan and overcontrol it because it can't be controlled anyways. So I think that is, like, a big part of it that we don't talk about is, like, the mental part, like, the mental preparation more than anything because that's what seems to be the biggest adjustment. So I'm glad that you could have that talk with her. I'm sure that she had a similar experience, but it's, you know, like, I feel like it's probably a canon part of becoming a mom is, like, wait, what? Like, yeah, no, I've definitely felt that too.

Yeah, just having this whole human that's all my responsibility was intimidating, but it was helpful to have her there, like, reassuring me and, you know, as she was able to figure it out, I guess I probably can too, especially with her by my side.

Yeah. Well, and y'all have always lived next to them, is that right, while being married?

Yeah. So we've always been about 20 minutes away from them. So not far at all.

That's so good. Just having that other support outside of you and Luke is just, I'm sure is so helpful. And you've probably, I mean, I've been feeling this like I've been relying on my mom already so much of like, wait, tell me, tell me what to do. I don't know what to do. You do it so well. Tell me what to do. And so for y'all to be physically in proximity to each other is really sweet too.

Yeah. So it's been really good. I'm really grateful for that. And I honestly, it would be really hard if something were to pull us away from home because I feel so close with her and I feel so much support from my parents. So it would be really difficult to leave, but I'm grateful to have it while we do.

Yeah, totally. Well, I'm so curious, how did it go? Take us to the moment of when Miss Evelyn made her big arrival.

Right. Well, so I remember, I didn't get a ton of Braxton Hitts interactions with her, but she was due January 8th, so not long after Christmas. And I remember New Year's Eve, we were walking around Wal-Mart for something. And I think it was actually because I was having Braxton Hitts interactions that we were hoping, okay, maybe if we walk around a little bit, you'll be able to work her out. But then she ended up not coming that night. And so Luke at the time was working night shifts every once in a while, which made me a little extra nervous just because he works like a whole hour and 15 minutes away from home. And so the thought of me going into labor while like in the middle of the night while he was at work terrified me. So after the New Year, when he started going back to his night shifts, I stayed that first night with my mom, especially because I had been feeling those Braxton Hicks interactions again. Nothing ended up happening that night, but I remember just sleeping all night. And then the next day, my mom brought me back home and Luke was in bed because he was sleeping for his next night shift. And then I just spent the whole day sleeping in bed with him again. I had slept all night and all day and I just felt so exhausted. And then when it came time for him to wake up and get ready to leave for work, I got up too and I stood up and got out of bed. And I told him, Oh, you're not going to work. My water just broke. So he was literally about to drive an hour away and she decided, no, I'm coming. So I guess I'll just break your water now.

1st Labor: Water Breaking, 12 Hour Labor, & A Finicky Epidural

What perfect timing, honestly. Like it what a thoughtful, thoughtful queen. Like, oh, let me save you the gas. Let me save you the drive.

She wanted her daddy there.

Yeah.

But yeah, so he called his boss and his boss was so funny because when he told him, hey, my wife's water just broke, I'm not going to be able to make it in. He was like, what are you doing calling me? Get her to the hospital.

Yes. Yes! I was worried. I'm like, that could go either way. So boss, are you going to pass the vibe check? And he did. That's great.

He did. So we drove to the hospital. And I remember just hearing like once you get to the hospital, they're not going to let you eat or anything like that. So on the way there, we stopped by Burger King and picked up some food. And I ate some of it. And when we got there and they checked to make sure that it was actually amniotic fluid, and it was, but I was not having any real contractions yet. And so my doctor said they were going to have to start me on pitocin, but she was so nice and said, you know what, because it's dinner time, I'm going to let you have dinner first.

Oh, that's so nice.

So they let me order in some dinner to the room. And I remember, I think I had fajitas, and that was like the best thing ever right then.

Yeah, that's amazing.

It was so good. And usually you don't hear hospital food being that good, but that meal was so good.

She's like, well, we actually do have a Michelin star chef for our hospital. We're going to make you fajitas, and then that'll induce you more than anything.

Yeah. So my doctor actually ended up being on call that night, which was really awesome. So I knew that she was going to be able to deliver the baby. And so after I ate, they went ahead and started me on pitocin and I remember feeling the curtain tractions kind of start. And it just, the best way I can describe it, it felt like a huge Charlie course around my entire abdomen. So it wasn't the way I expected it to be, because I expected it to be this sharp pain, I guess. And it was more crampy than I thought it would be. And I was able to make it, I want to say we got to the hospital around 5 p.m. And they started me on pitocin around 7. And I was able to make it until around, I think, mid-night without an epidural. But at that point, they checked how dilated I was, and I was only 3 centimeters, and I came in at a one. And at that point, I was just like, I'm already so tired. I just want this epidural. And so I got the epidural at that point, and I remember being really nervous because Luke hates needles.

That's so funny. I wouldn't expect that. Isn't he a paramedic?

He has paramedic training.

Okay, okay.

Yeah. So he's tatted up all the way on his arms, and you wouldn't expect him to be afraid of needles, but he was terrified and he was the one that was scared for the epidural, not me.

I'm sure it's different, but yeah, sorry, that caught me off guard. I wouldn't expect that.

I was expecting him to actually go out and wait in the hallway while we did the epidural, but he was brave enough to sit there right where he could not see the needle, but he sat there and held my hands while they put it in. And it felt great at first, but I came to find out that that was just like the initial booster that they give until the actual epidural kicks in, because after that initial part wore off, I could feel everything on my right side. So it was none on my left, but my whole right side, I could see every...

Oh my gosh.

And so for like three hours or so, they had me rolling around, trying to get it to even out onto the other side, and eventually it did. But then it came to be close to time for me to push. And I don't remember having the medicine button. Like you hear a lot with epidural, so they'll give you a button to give yourself more medicine. And for Evelyn, for some reason, they didn't give me that, which was weird.

Yeah, that is weird.

And so when it was close to time for me to push, I remember all the pain just amping up, and it felt like it wasn't working at all anymore. And the anesthesiologist was able to give me a second booster, kind of like what they gave me at the beginning, which was great, because I couldn't feel anything anymore, but also I couldn't feel anything anymore.

Oh, jeez.

Like, no pressure or nothing. It was totally numb. And so, eventually, they checked me, and I was at a 10, and it was about, I want to say 5, by 20 or so in the morning. So the doctor came in right away to help with the pushing part, and I think I had made a bet that she would be out by 5:30 that morning. And I pushed her out within two contractions.

Oh, my gosh. That's incredible, especially your first baby.

Yeah, I was so happy because I had heard of people who have to push for hours on end. There was actually someone who was in the room next to me, who I could hear her screaming in the room next to me because she had been pushing for two hours.

Oh, my gosh.

They eventually took her down to C-section because she wasn't making progress. And so I was so grateful that I got her out so quickly.

Pelvic floor of a champ. That's amazing. There's the dance. There's the, I don't know. I say pelvic floor. I'm sure it helps. I don't know if it actually makes a difference that much, but that's amazing.

1st Postpartum: Committing to Breastfeeding, Choosing to Co-sleep, & Intrusive Thoughts

Yeah. So I got her out in two pushes. It was her official birth time was 5:27 a.m. And then she was born and I remember just this overwhelming joy hitting me, just having my baby girl laced on my chest. And Luke cut the cord. And I remember, I think I started crying. I don't remember for sure because because of that booster, everything was kind of fuzzy. I was a little bit, it was a little bit of a blur, but I do remember just feeling your joy. And so they put her on my chest, and we did that skin-to-skin contact. And we tried to start nursing at that point, but she didn't really get a very good latch. And so after a little while, they, I think they gave me extra golden hour time. They gave me two whole hours.

Oh my goodness, that's amazing.

After that, they took her over to do her weighing and all that, and they took me into the bathroom. And after I had gotten cleaned up and everything like that, put on the ginormous pad, I remember coming out and Luke holding her with tears in his eyes, FaceTiming his mom. And I remember, as much as I wanted it to be a sweet moment, I remember being so furious because I was not there when they placed her in his arms. I was so mad.

You're like, you couldn't have waited two more minutes? I mean, think about that.

But looking back now, I'm okay with it because of the experience that I saw that he was having. But yeah, it was special and also really angering.

Yeah.

But I think that was the first time that I have ever actually seen him cry, was when he was holding our baby girl for the first time.

It's so sweet. It's so tender.

Yeah. And so it was interesting. I meant to say this earlier, but throughout my whole pregnancy, Luke had always been talking to his friends, and they had always told him like, don't look down there when she's pushing because it's not something you want to see. And while I was pushing, he was at first like looking at my face and eventually his eyes kind of wandered. And he was expected to be like, expecting to be appalled by what he saw. But he afterwards just told me it was like the most beautiful sight ever to see his wife bringing his daughter into the world. And while I was pushing my doctor, let me feel her hair and she had so much hair. And it was so crazy to be like, she's almost here. And then to be able to finally hold her in my arms was incredible. But yeah, I mean, so postpartum, kind of going back to why I wish I had worked out more during pregnancy with her, I had a really hard time even standing up. I felt like toward the end of my pregnancy, I had felt so much support from her holding up my posture that I just kind of let my abs go. And so once she was gone and I didn't have that support anymore, it was just like, all of a sudden I felt so wobbly and I couldn't even stand up right. And so throughout my hospital stay, I just kind of stayed in bed the whole time. And finally, the last day, I was there for like three days or so, I got up and was able to start kind of walking around just the hallways to kind of try and get my core strength back. But I remember feeling like, is this really how I'm supposed to feel? Because I didn't have a C-section or anything like that, but I just feel so weak. So that's something that I really wished that I could have changed with her. But otherwise, immediately postpartum, it went pretty well. She had, when they measured her head, she had a 13 centimeter head.

That sounds really big. I don't know what that means. So it sounds really big.

So dilation, right? Oh, you dilate to 10 centimeters.

Yeah, okay! That's freaking context. Oh my gosh.

Yeah. But I did not tear somehow. So that is amazing, especially with it being as fast as it was. I was so grateful because I didn't need any stitches at least. I might have had like, I had some abrasions and stuff like that because I was still sore down there, but I was grateful to not have torn.

That is amazing. I mean, that puts it perfectly into context of how big her head was. Oh my gosh.

It was crazy. And then I did struggle at first a little bit with breastfeeding just because I didn't really know how to latch her on, right? And my mom didn't really breastfeed any of us kids for very long. I was always surrounded by people who mainly just did formula feeding for most of my life, because that's just kind of what was popular. And a lot of people, I think, just at a certain point were done with breastfeeding. But I had made a determination in my mind that, you know, the recommendation, I don't remember if it's the AAP or the World Health Organization. One of them, the recommendation was to breastfeed until the baby was two years old, if possible. And so that was my goal. So I was really frustrated at first when I wasn't able to get her latched right away. But I had a lactation consultant come in while I was in the hospital, and she was able to kind of show me. At first, I was trying to just hold her in a normal cradle while I was nursing her. And I just wasn't able to get a deep enough latch. And she was able to taught me that if you do like the football hold, where you hold their head in your hands and kind of tuck their legs under your arm, they're able to get a deeper latch that way. And so after trying that technique, we were able to get it down pretty well. But I just remember the first night in the hospital, I remember being so, so tired. Like I had slept almost the entire day before, and the labor itself was only from the time my water broke to the time she was out in the world, was only about 13 hours, which in the grand scheme of things is not bad at all. But I was so, so tired. And that first night, I remember, like every time I set her down, even if she was still sleeping, every little coo woke me up, and she just did not want to be apart from me. And she still is like this. Like she still wants me to lay with her until she falls asleep in bed. But I remember just eventually, I started bawling my eyes out because I was just so tired. And eventually, once she was able to start nursing better and all of that, I was able to get a little bit more rest, and there were times where Luke was able to hold her, and I was able to get a little rest then. But honestly, the best rest that I was able to get was the rest that they tell you you're not supposed to get. It was when I was sitting there nursing her, and it felt so natural to just drift off to sleep with her in my arms. And that's when it felt safe. And at the same time, I felt so terrified because I've always struggled with anxiety, and I was terrified of SIDS or dropping her or something like that. So it was terrifying, and I took that struggle home with me after I left the hospital. Yeah, I remember as soon as she latched on, that release of oxytocin that you get from breastfeeding just put my whole body at peace. And so it was really hard for me to stay awake while she was nursing. And eventually, because every time I tried to stay awake and set her down in her bed, the second I took my hands off of her, she would wake up again. And so eventually I came to a place as difficult as it was for me, where I told myself I would rather plan to fall asleep with her, with me, and make sure that I've taken every safety precaution that I can, making sure there's no blankets around her face. She's laying on the bed, not on me, where she can fall off. I'd rather that, so that we can both get some sleep, than fall asleep with her on my chest, and have her fall off to the ground and get hurt. And so eventually I came to a place where I felt at peace, kind of co-sleeping with her. And that was a hard place to get to, but it ended up being the best way for anyone to get any sleep. But that kind of anxiety played kind of throughout my whole postpartum with her. I don't think I necessarily struggled with postpartum depression, but I did struggle with that anxiety portion to a pretty big degree. And I remember at one point, she was a few months old at this point, but I was giving her a bath in the bathtub, and there was like this flash happened in my head where I saw myself like holding her underwater. Intentionally, and it was terrifying to me, and I immediately took her out of the bath, dried her off, and unplugged the bath, because I was so scared of what I just saw. And it wasn't any kind of a desire to harm my baby. I didn't want to hurt my baby. I didn't want to hurt myself. But it was so terrifying to me to have this intrusive thought, which is something that I've struggled with my whole life. But this one just felt different. So I remember as scared as I was to talk to my mom about it, because I thought she was gonna think that I was gonna try and hurt my baby. And that's not where I was at. I eventually brought up the courage to talk to her about it. And she was able to give me a lot of comfort in knowing that that's something that can happen. And it's not something that I had ever heard of before. Like I had heard of postpartum psychosis where people actually try and harm their babies. Or postpartum depression where you're struggling with your own mental health. But I had never heard of this anxiety where you see bad things happen to your babies and it's not real. So I never actually ended up getting any medication or therapy for that. But that was something that I struggled with a lot. But overall, she was a healthy and happy baby, and I was really grateful to have her. And I just was so grateful that I was petrified of losing her.

That's such a sweet thought and reflection. It's true, right? Like, you're not worried about these things because you don't care about her. It's the opposite. Like, you know, your brain just has all these caring feelings. It doesn't know what to do with it. And so it's like, it makes sense. Like, all these chemicals are just shifting gears so quickly that it makes sense that it would have varying effects and varying things. And so I'm so glad that you could talk to your mom, and that it's I'm so grateful that we are expanding our conversation about like, yeah, like, there's so many different reactions and so many different realities. And so if someone can hear your perspective and feel seen by that, I think that's wonderful. Thank you for sharing that openly. I think that's how we can be more aware is anything. That's how we've become more aware already. It's like people are sharing more. And so I'm glad that it wasn't debilitating, but that would be scary. And so I'm glad that you could get that help that you needed. And the overall she was a happy, healthy baby. That's great. Wonderful. Well, I would love to know how y'all felt ready to bring in another little baby into your life and how the beginnings of that was for you.

2nd Pregnancy: Pubic Symphysis Dysfunction & Slightly Enlarged Baby Kidneys

So honestly, I don't know if there was a certain point where I definitely felt ready, but it was like just the older and older Evelyn got, the more I just felt that longing for the little tiny curled up newborn again.

Yeah.

So I had been taking like the mini pillow while I was postpartum with her. But that's not one where you have to make sure that you're taking it at the same time every day. And I have ADHD, and so trying to remember to take it at the same time every single day was not working for me. And eventually, I just kind of stopped taking it because I was like, I'm going to end up getting pregnant anyway.

So I don't want to pay for a prescription that I'm not even going to. Yeah.

And so she was, I want to say 11 months old when I got my first period back after having her. So that was the only period after having her that I had before getting pregnant with Lehi. So I thought it was funny that I had, I guess that's just how my body worked. It was one period after getting married, and then I got pregnant with Evelyn, and one period after having Evelyn, and then I got pregnant with Lehi.

Wow.

I thought that was kind of funny and how the Lord played that way. So I ended up getting pregnant with him around her first birthday. I was grateful for that because I was at a point where I was like, I don't want to have like the Irish twins where they're both like less than a year apart. I want them to be like maybe at least 18 months apart, and they ended up being 21 months apart. So right in that range. See, I'm trying to think of like how I figured out that I was pregnant with Lehi. I remember like just having super high emotions, but I think I just, I had realized that my period was late, and so one morning, I took a pregnancy test without telling Luke again. And I think he was actually home that day. And so I took the pregnancy test, and it came out positive. I took a moment in the bathroom by myself to try and like prepare myself for what I had just realized. And I was happy and excited, and I don't think I was quite as nervous this time, although I was nervous just about how it would work with having two under two. I remember while we were dating, Luke once told me about this dream that he had where we were getting in the car ready to go, and we had packed kids into the car, and then he got into the car, and he saw this teddy bear on the dash that said, it looks like it's time to upgrade to a minivan because we have another princess along the way. And so I tried to recreate that, but because he was home that day, and we were getting ready to go to a doctor's appointment or something like that, it was really rushed because I didn't want to have to wait very long to tell him because I knew it would slip out. So I found a teddy bear that we had, and I wrote a little note, and at the time, it was actually kind of perfect because we had a two-door coupe that we were packing our little family of three and two, and that was the only car we had. And so I put that little note in there and said, looks like it's time to upgrade to a minivan because we have another little prince or princess along the way. And I made sure to put Prince there because I had a strong feeling that it was not a girl this time. And I had actually had a strong feeling that Evelyn was going to be a girl too. So I had a pretty good sense that I was going to be right this time too. And so, I think he was excited when he saw it, but he was also kind of confused because he apparently didn't remember that dream that I was trying to recreate.

He's like, cool, honey.

Yeah. He was excited, I think, and we didn't wait as long to tell our family this time. We just kind of told them a little bit more upfront before I had even had the confirmation scan. And so eventually, I went in to get the dating scan and all of that, and I found out that I was actually like two weeks behind what I originally thought. So instead of being eight weeks, I was only like six weeks, but they were still able to like see her in the ult- or see him on the ultrasound, and they were still able to find his heart even at six weeks along.

Wow. Was it mentally hard for you to be two weeks behind where you thought? Because I had the opposite experience. I was two weeks ahead, and I was like, oh, thank heavens. Like, it was so nice to be two weeks closer to being done with the first trimester. Was it hard, or had it not really like gotten like nauseous or anything yet?

Yeah, I hadn't really gotten nauseous yet at that point. And actually with Lehigh, I didn't really get very much nausea at all.

That's great.

Which was a huge relief. I do remember being a little bit disappointed because I was like, okay, I guess we're two weeks farther behind than I thought. It's going to be two more weeks before I get to see him. But the only time I remember actually getting sick during that pregnancy was actually because of a stomach bug.

Ah, jeez.

I had just started teaching at a new dance studio, and there was something that was going around there. And I picked it up, and the one time that I threw up while I was away from home happened to be in my new minivan.

Oh, yay!

And I did not have those special packs that my mom made for me.

Oh, no! Shoot.

I don't know if I want to get too graphic, but I was trying so hard to hold it in, and I stopped at a stoplight so I couldn't pull over, and it just didn't make it long enough. Oh, no!

That's horrible! That's horrible.

But other than that, I really didn't get sick sick. I remember feeling a little bit of nausea, but the weirdest thing with my first trimester with him was that I had a serious aversion to chocolate, of all things. And I am someone who loves chocolate, so it was so weird. Like, even the smell of chocolate made me want to throw up. It was so gross.

Man, that's wild. Well, I was trying to do the math in my head, and like, that's like around Valentine's Day, probably, like all the chocolate, and then Easter, all the fun, good chocolate holidays happening. That's the worst.

I know. It was awful. I couldn't even stand the smell of chocolate. And even if Evelyn was eating something that might have had chocolate, I could not sit next to her because it was that bad. So, it was really, really strange. But luckily, that went away halfway through my second trimester, and after that, I could have chocolate again.

You're like, finally, make up for last time.

But the only thing that I really struggled with during his pregnancy physically was pubic synthesis dysfunction. And I don't know if you've heard of that before.

I've heard of it a little bit, but I don't know a ton of what it actually means.

Yeah, so similar to kind of what I was talking about with Evelyn, where my ligaments and things like that were stretching in my hips, and so I was just really sore. So your pubic synthesis is like that spot on your pubic bum where your two hip bones come to meet, and those hormones that make all of your ligaments loosen up made it extra bad right there. And so every time I tried to take a step, it just felt like it was like shearing pain, like someone was trying to rip my pubic bone apart. It was horrible.

Oh my gosh.

And mind you, I was teaching dance lessons at this time. So I was teaching girls how to leap across the room, and there were times where I just had to stop all of a sudden and hold myself because it hurt so bad.

Oh my gosh, Jessica. 

It was horrible.

And so when did that start? Was that closer to the end or was it similar to Evelyn where it was like before there was even a big baby in there?

I want to say it started pretty early like with Evelyn, but it definitely got worse as time went on. Where with Evelyn, I noticed it eased out after a little while because it had stretched enough. This one, it just continued to get worse until I delivered. The best thing I could do was like take Tylenol to help the pain, and that didn't even really help because of the type of pain it was. So it was that and I experienced really bad heartburn with both pregnancies actually. And so that is something I struggled with through my whole life, but it was like amped up times 10 while I was pregnant. But otherwise, the pregnancy itself was pretty healthy, except for during his anatomy scan, we figured out that one of his kidneys was slightly enlarged, which I guess is something that can be pretty common. Around week 30, they sent me or they took another ultrasound just to see if it was still that way, and it was. So they sent me to a specialist, I can't remember what it's called. And it ended up being that his kidney actually remained slightly enlarged throughout pregnancy and even after he was born. But there's nothing like super... They weren't overly concerned about it. They were at first worried, like maybe there could be some sort of a back flow into his kidney. But everything came out anatomically looking normal, so they weren't really concerned. And it's just, I guess, something that can happen sometimes, especially it's more common with boys. But yeah, that was the only thing really that was a little bit concerning with him. But I guess that kind of just leads us to delivery.

Yeah.

So, Evelyn at this point was just a little over a year and a half. And so she, the mama's girl that she is, was still not sleeping through the night. And I remember just feeling super behind, like this pregnancy had flown by way faster than Evelyn's had. I just was every day going to teach at the dance studio, and the rest of the day, I was like laying on the couch trying to nap because I was so tired. But the pregnancy flew by, and I did not feel like I was ready. And there was this one Sunday where after church, I was just like, okay, I just need to make sure that I have a bed set up for him. Like his car seat has been cleaned, that's ready for him. I need to make sure he has a bed so that if he, by some chance, comes tonight, I have something to lay him in. And so that day, I set up his little bassinet in the corner of our bedroom, and I got Evelyn down to bed, and she woke up around midnight, and I was trying to lull her back to sleep. And I actually had been, side note, I had been nursing her throughout my entire pregnancy because I was determined to hit that two-year goal still. And so, it got a little bit painful toward the end, just because I was so raw and tender because of hormones and all that. But I pushed through for her, and so I was nursing her back to sleep, and for some reason I got up, I think I had to go to the bathroom or something like that. So I had laid her back down and got up to go to the bathroom, and she was still awake. I walked to go to the bathroom, and I'm standing in the hallway, and my water broke again. Just out of nowhere.

2nd Labor: Negative Reaction to IV Meds & Side-lying Epidural

Oh my goodness! Two for two at night.

I know, and I was so caught off guard because I had heard like, this is a pretty rare occurrence for it to be like, your water is the first, your water breaking is the first sign of labor. Usually it's like a little down the line. I was like, I guess this is just how my body works. But so it was about midnight. And so I called my mom like in tears, like, Mom, this baby's coming. I need you to come and get Evelyn. And I don't know if I'm ready for this. My house is a mess. And I was just not ready. So she, the saint that she is, got up at midnight and drove down to our house to pick up my daughter as I was frantically packing bags for Evelyn and for myself and Luke while we were getting ready to go to the hospital because we didn't have anything packed. And my mom got there and I just, like, I remember hugging her and starting to ball my eyes out because I just was not ready for this baby. He ended up being, I think I was 37 weeks along. So I wasn't quite full term yet. That's why I was just like, I'm not ready for this. He's not supposed to come yet. And so I nursed Evelyn one last time before we left for the hospital. And my mom packed her into her car and we drove off separate ways. And it being the middle of the night, I still wanted to have my snack before I went into labor, so we stopped at the gas station. Nothing was open. And so I grabbed like a little check mix or something like that. And we went to the hospital and they confirmed it had indeed been my water breaking. And I still, I was, I think, three centimeters at this point, but I still wasn't really progressing on my own. So they told me that I needed to do the toasting again. And I was okay with that. But I at the same time had been like setting more on how I could have a little bit more of a natural birth, because that's something that I wanted to try and do just because I wanted to like, I don't know, I had always felt like I was a strong person. And my mom delivered all four of us naturally. And I wanted to be able to say the same for myself, like, I can do this. And so I asked them when they started hooking me up to the pitocin, like, can I still, like, get into the shower and stuff like that? Because I just, I know that will help my body to cope with the pain more. And I guess for whatever reason, my nurse told me, like, no, we actually can't let you get in the water because of the IV or something like that, or because they wanted to have her hooked up or have him hooked up to the monitor. Because of the pitocin. I wish that I had advocated for myself a little more on that because I think I would have been able to make it a bit longer. But start to end, my labor with him was actually very similar. It was about 13 hours from start to end, started about midnight, and I gave birth about, I can't remember the exact time right now, but it was around a little after 1 PM. And so they hooked me up to the pitocin, and I did the best I could for a while, just kind of bouncing on the birthing ball and asking to give me a little bit of counter pressure. And looking back, I do wish that I had taken advantage of the birthing classes that the hospital offered, but I just thought, I guess, I've done this before, or I've watched so many videos of doing this naturally, I think I've got it. And I think next time around, I'm going to make sure that I take those classes. But I made it a few hours, and I think it was around like 3 a.m. or something like that, maybe a little bit later. And I just again got to the point where they checked me, and I had only progressed like 2 centimeters. And I was like, okay, I'm so tired, and I just, I think my body is just gonna progress faster if I have the epidural. But at first, before we did the epidural, I wanted to try doing some IV medication to see if that would take the edge off enough. I believe what they gave me was actually fentanyl, but I'm not 100% positive. And my body reacted horribly to it.

Oh, no.

They pumped it into my IV, and almost immediately, I like started going limp. And I, my vision started blacking out.

Oh, my goodness.

I was slurring my speech. My nurse was trying to get my attention like, Jessica, are you okay? Are you okay? Luke was trying to get my attention, and I like couldn't even form a word.

Oh, my goodness.

I was like slumping over. They helped me lay down on my side. And it was kind of terrifying. So I know for sure that that's not something I will ever be doing again.

Yeah, shoot. Did that stay in your system long? Like, did they do a little test dose or something, hopefully?

It didn't stay in my system long. I think it was over within like 10 minutes or so. But they actually immediately after that started going south, called up the epidural, like the anesthesiologist. And so he got up there while the medicine was still kind of in effect. And he was asking me like, do you think you can sit up? And I told him, honestly, I don't think I can. But I was still feeling all of the pain from the contractions. And so I was pretty scared because he told me like, I think I'm probably, we can probably do it while you're laying on your side. And I knew that was a bit more risky than like sitting up how they normally have you. But he was really reassuring and said like, I've done this hundreds of times before, like, I've got you. And so he was able to put it in seamlessly, and almost immediately the pain was gone. I started feeling better again, and this time, thankfully, the epidural actually worked.

Oh, good.

Yeah. So he was able to give me the epidural, and I was able to finally just kind of lay back and rest a bit and let my body do what it needed to do. And I felt really, really exhausted because I hadn't gotten any sleep the night before because I was trying to soothe Evelyn, and then my water broke. Much, much different than the almost 30 hours of sleep that I had gotten before Evelyn. I swear I was not, I did not get to take any kind of a nap, but Luke also swears that there was a point where the nurse came in, and they were both like kind of giggling at me because I was sitting there like with my mouth open, drowsy, and dozed off asleep. And the nurse was like saying, oh, just let her sleep, she's so tired. And I just, I swear I did not get any sleep, but he swears otherwise, so. Eventually came time where it was time to push, and I was feeling fresher, but not like being like I did with Evelyn. And it was actually I liked it a lot more because I could tell like where she was. I could tell for myself when it was time to push and not just like, okay, you're 10 centimeters, let's push her out. And so it was a lot better. I felt a lot more with it. I wasn't like, it wasn't hazy like it was before. And so I got ready to push. And again, with Lehigh, I pushed him out into contractions.

Oh my goodness.

His head was a similar size and I still didn't tear.

That is amazing!

I'm grateful to know that, like my body does that part really well.

Yes.

2nd Postpartum: Tandem Breastfeeding & Mental Health Help

But I remember when he came out, I again started bawling my eyes out, like I have a little baby boy right here. And something that caught me off guard a little bit was like the postpartum shakes. And so, they set me on, set him on my chest, and all of a sudden, I was like shivering, like I was sitting in zero degree weather. And I couldn't do anything to stop it. I look at videos and I see him laying there on my chest, shaking with me, and I'm like, that poor baby could have gotten shaken baby syndrome from how much I was shaking.

It was like a massage chair. We'll think of it that way.

Yeah, that's better. But with him, I remember having a little bit more bleeding afterwards. And they do like those fondle checks where they push on you to make sure that your uterus is contracting like it's supposed to. And I had actually asked for a mirror while I was delivering him because I wanted to see that motivation. And I could see like what types of pushes were helping and which ones were not. So it was cool to be able to like actually see him come into the world. But I remember also seeing like all the other stuff that comes out and being a little caught off guard with the blood that I saw. But yeah, otherwise, I was able, because of my experience with Evelyn, I was able to get him to latch right away for breastfeeding during the golden hour. And so his nursing was pretty smooth sailing. But postpartum with him because I had spent so much time teaching and making sure I was keeping my body strong, I was able to get up and walk right away. And we actually were able to be sent home like exactly 24 hours after he was born.

Wow.

Which felt like a major shift, but I was also so ready to go home because I missed Evelyn. But, yeah, with him, it was... It felt, even though I was still just as, if not more, exhausted, it felt a lot easier because I had had the experience of doing it with Evelyn, and my body was more used to going without sleep. So overall, it felt a lot easier the second time around.

Good. I was curious, like, with Evelyn still not sleeping through the night, how was that having two little ones having a hard time sleeping? Was that hard, or did it kind of help Evelyn kind of adjust more quickly or something?

It was a little bit of both. Luke was really good about, like, if I was trying to nurse Lehigh or something like that, he would go calm Evelyn down. There were nights where I'd end up with both of them in bed with me, like, on either side of my body, but Lehigh was also better. He didn't wake up suddenly if I set him down, so he was able to spend more time in the bassinet than Evelyn ever was. So that helped a lot, too.

That's good. That's good. When, you know, just when you were saying, like, the night that I went to labor, she was not sleeping in the night, like, still not. That was in my mind, like, oh, my gosh, that would be so hard, but I'm glad that that was better.

Yeah. And there are definitely still tricky nights, and there are still some nights where they both wake up in the middle of the night. But, you know, you just kind of learn to roll with it, I guess. Yeah. Postpartum with him, I did have some of that anxiety creep back a little bit. I remember being really worried, like, because of the bleeding that I had had. And I remember showing my nurse a couple of big clots that I had gotten in my pad. And I just felt really nervous that I was gonna suddenly hemorrhage at home, especially because I had gone home so much sooner than I did with Evelyn. And so I had these flashes of, like, what if I'm, like, home alone with my two babies? And I just hemorrhaged out on the couch, like, what happens then? But luckily, that was not an issue. And I was able to eventually find some tools to help me cope with pushing away those anxious, intrusive thoughts a little bit more. But I did also feel a little bit more of the depression side with Lehigh. Not to the point where I was wanting to harm myself, but there were also, like, those intrusive thoughts. Not that I wanted to do it, but, like, kind of the anxiety and depression coming together, which was a little scary. And at that point, I remember talking to my mom about it and deciding with her that I needed to go talk to my doctor about it. And so I did, and I was very adamant because I was terrified that if I had to start taking medication and whatever medication I took, I wasn't able to breastfeed with, I was terrified that not being able to breastfeed, not just the newborn, but the two-year-old, or the almost two-year-old, like, making it to that goal that I had set for her. I was terrified that if I was having to stop that, that that would make it worse instead of helping. And so I talked to her instead about doing some therapy. And so I did therapy for a little while, and that was able to give me some of the tools that I needed to kind of pull myself out, I guess. But ever since the beginning, they've both just been little mama's babies. I mean, Evelyn loves her daddy, and Lehigh really looks up to him as a father figure, but they both just... they want their mama.

Yeah.

And it's kind of almost bittersweet, because there are those nights where I'm just so, so tired, and I just want some time by myself. But it's also so, like, almost refreshing, but I don't even know how to put it into words. It's so life-giving to know that there are these two little people who need me so much, and that I'm able to fulfill their needs in a way that no one else can. So that helps a lot.

Yeah. I love that term, life-giving. I love that so much, because I could imagine it's like, okay, this is so hard, but, like, feeling so much purpose and feeling so much, like, divinity within you, right? Of, like, this is literally why I'm here right now. And, like, obviously, taking care of yourself is also a huge priority for everything. But for that to be an emotion that's also showing up to the table with all the things is so beautiful. And I'm so glad that you can feel that, because I've seen you with those sweet little kiddos, and they, you are spot on. And they just love you so much. They just, they're just such cute little Velcro babies. You know, I could see how that would also be hard at times. And so I'm glad that there's moments to help balance it out too.

Yeah, for sure. But yeah, I mean, overall, with as difficult as it can be, I'm very grateful for just, you know, seeing the connection that I've been able to make with each of them, and being able to know that has been really refreshing because of some of the things that I've had to kind of let go of a little bit, because of the choice that I made to become a mom so young. Like, I wasn't able to go to college right away because, first of all, it was COVID, and then I had a baby, so that was adding complexity, and so I hadn't been able to do that yet. And I never... I always had dreams of being a professional dancer, and I didn't end up making that happen for myself. But it, in the end, is so worth it because of these sweet little babies that I'm able to spend every day with.

Wow, so beautiful. They are so, so, so blessed to have you as their mama, and such a tender thing of... I don't know, it makes me think of, for some reason, just like tangled when, you know, it's like, you're my new dream, right? Like, just that these little sweeties can, like, help you feel fulfillment and feel that growth that would come from those other dreams, right? And there's times and places, and I hope there's still opportunity, and, you know, for more dreams to come as well. But that's just such a sweet, selfless, beautiful way to just, to take this chapter. It's so beautiful.

I feel like it's kind of an experience, becoming a mom and having not just one baby, but two babies. It's like every step, it feels like you're kind of stepping into the dark, and it can be really difficult sometimes, but just kind of like we were just talking about. If you're able to grasp on to your love for them and faith, then it makes it also worth it.

That is so beautiful. Well, and this may be your answer to this question too, but I always find it so beautiful and so interesting to ask that if you could go back and talk to your pre-mom self, what is something that you would tell her?

To My Pre-Mom Self…

I think I would go back and tell myself not to worry so much. And as silly as that can sound with someone who struggles so much with anxiety, there are so many voices in the world telling you what's the right way to do what. Like, oh, you can't sleep with your baby in your bed with you because that's dangerous, but you also can't fall asleep with them while you're feeding them. And you have to make sure that you can't let them cry it out while you're teaching them to sleep, but you also can't rock them to sleep because that makes bad habits. And so there's so much contradicting information in the world. It can be overwhelming and it makes that mom guilt that everyone suffers from so much worse if you give any hate to it. So I would just tell myself or anyone who's about to be a mom, just go off of your instincts and what feels best for you and your baby because with my beliefs, I believe that God has put this baby in your family for a reason. He has chosen you as the mom for this baby, and he will give you the knowledge and the skills to be able to take care of this baby. And you are the only one who can know the right way to take care of your baby. And it's just that you are the best mom for your own child, and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

Thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate that personally, too. I've started to feel some of that overwhelm of like, we are so fortunate to live in a time where it's not just, okay, just gotta keep doing what's always been done. It's, you know, like that we have access to more perspectives. But sometimes, like, it's like, I literally wish there was one option for each thing, right? Just tell me the one option versus like...

Tell me what to do.

Exactly. And I was talking to my mom about this, and even Nate's mom. They're like, we had a book, and that was basically it, you know? And I'm grateful that like, there's more examples. But sometimes, especially, I feel you, like being a worrier and an anxious person, it's like, okay, but how do I know? How do I know? And so, I really, really, really appreciate you. I feel like you're talking to me directly, truly. I'm just like, okay, like, at the end of the day, you are this sweet little honey's mom, and you are prepared for this. Even if you have some catching up to do, like, they are yours for a reason. And so, thank you. Thank you for putting that so simply. And beautifully, and clearly. And I'm sure, I'm sure that so many people listening are like, me too, you're talking to me too. Because I think it's just grateful that we can have a larger community, have, you know, more awareness of things, but also not valuing someone else's experience over your own, and your own instincts as well. So, thank you.

Thank you so much for having me, because I've, like, you know, I've been thinking about this for a while. Like, it'd be so cool to be able to share my experience in this kind of a platform, because I honestly just love the way that you're bringing all of this to light in such a almost, like, laid back, but comfortable way for everyone to hear these different stories and figure out what is best for them. Thank you for what you're doing.

Oh, my gosh. Thank you. That seriously means so much. It truly does. I, yeah, that seriously means everything. I don't have words. It's it's what I hope. I hope that it can just really feel like how you talk to a friend, like, and your friend's going to tell you how it is, but you're not going to feel this doom and gloom, right? Of like, what? And I'm so grateful that you and the other women who have shared so far have just it's a vulnerable thing. It is so vulnerable. And like, especially when you're like, I know that this is different from, you know, what a lot of people do or even what I thought I was going to choose. But this is what I chose. And I stand strong in that in that choice for my family. And I think just giving more, I don't even know if permission is the right word, but just like adding another color into the painting of, you know, of just what our experiences are is so beautiful. So I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful that you're on today. And what a beautiful coloring that you've added to our understanding. I'm so grateful for you, friend.

Thank you. I'm so grateful for you too.

All right, y'all, a huge thanks to Jessica for sharing her experiences with us today. She has inspired me for sure to work on my flexibility, because I feel like being a dancer and being able to push two babies out and two pushes is not a coincidence. I mean, who knows? I don't. The body is a mystery for the most part, right? But it probably couldn't hurt, right? So I am so inspired to be more stretchy. I more so, I super, super appreciate her sharing about adapting her expectations to the reality of her situation. Obviously, you know, we all wish we could just make a plan and stick to it, but I have horrible news that life just does not always work that way. And a theme that I've been picking up over and over again through talking with my friends on this podcast is that at the end of the day, you have to do what's best for you and your baby, period. And that will always be a little different from what you thought it would look like, or what your friends thought it would look like, or, you know, what worked for your mom, or even what your doctor told you it would look like. And that sounds so intimidating, even, you know, especially as a first time mom. So I am just truly so grateful that week after week, I get to sit with these women, or we get to sit with them, as we hear them authentically share how they navigate those decisions. And I am so grateful that through sharing their experiences, the rest of us can be better friends and better champions of the women in our life. We're only a few months in, and my eyes have been opened wider to truly see my mom friends more fully. And I hope that you've felt like your perspective has broadened as you've been listening. And I hope that it helps you feel more connected to the women in your life. Thank you so much for sitting with us today. One of my friends told me recently that at the end of each episode, she just wants to call me and unload all of her thoughts that she had during the episode, which I love that. I want y'all to do that. If you have my number, please do that. I love the rest of y'all so much, but I kind of have to not just offer to give out my personal information all the time, but you can always send me a voice message on Instagram with all of your thoughts or leave a comment on this episode or all the things that you know how to do to reach out. I seriously want to hear it. If you think it would be weird, it's not weird at all. I live to hear from y'all. And I said it from episode one. If you're listening to this, you are my friend and I want to hear from my friends. So please continue to reach out and engage. Y'all are so amazing. And because of that, I want to see you here at the exact same time next week. Okay?

K, love you, bye!